Mackenzie in France???

[Neil_Crafter]

While it is understood Mackenzie did indeed spend time in France when he was in the Royal Engineers in WW1, it is generally accepted that he did not work there after the war or before for that matter.

I came across this reference in a presentation that John Fleming, son of Jack Fleming, gave to The Alister Mackenzie Society back in 1997. In referring to his father he says:

"From 1920 to 1926 he served as timekeeper, paymaster and construction foreman at twelve Mackenzie projects throughout England, Scotland, France and Ireland; culminating with several courses around County Cork, Ireland."

My question is this - has anybody heard any mentions of Mackenzie working in France before? Or is this likely an error of recollection on the part of John Fleming? What is John Fleming doing these days, has he retired?

I'd be interested to hear any responses.

[Sean_Tully]

Neil,

John is currently the super at Genoa Lakes in Nevada. I still need to sit down with him and talk at some point.

Check that manifest where he lands in Plymouth as his boat may have stopped in Cherbourg, France. Not sure how long it could have stayed or he for that matter. I have yet to hear about any work in France. It would be interesting to see what courses Colt was doing before and during their partnership. This could direct some questions and searches in those directions.

Tully

[Neil_Crafter]

Tully
Its good that John is still working and is relatively closeby in Nevada. I would reckon an in depth interview with him (recorded) discussing his recollections of his father and his times with Mackenzie would be very valuable to get and you may be able to get him to expand on things like this France mention.

John also lists Sonoma National as a course where Mackenzie and his father did remodelling work (page 5 of his presentation). C&W have this was a Sam Whiting course - is it possible Mackenzie redesigned it? Its in your neck of the woods, have you ever heard any reference to it before this?

The manifest of Mackenzie's arrival into Southampton on 31 October 1928 on the Aquitania shows that the ship came from New York via Cherbourg. I can't imagine it stayed long in Cherbourg, probably a few hours or half a day. Maybe enough for him to get off and stretch his legs, but not realistically long enough for him to see a course unless it was right there in town. He did see Royal Adelaide when his ship the Otranto stopped there for a day, so its not out of the question totally, but I'm thinking more of the number of trips you would need to make to do a project over there. I also think that John Fleming is saying that these were projects that involved his father were prior to him leaving for America, so that would place it prior to 1926.

Neil

[Neil_Crafter]

Here's a small mention of Mac I found in two newspapers, Kingston Daily Freeman NY and Daily Courier in Connellsville PA from November 1928.

Mentions he has layouts in "Europe to his credit". Should we give this any credence I wonder?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Neil, Would you like pictures of Crosland Heath? I think I've got enough that the best holes are adequately represented. Perhaps e-mail me markrowlinson@btopenworld to take it forward. Mark.

[Tom Naccarato]

Mark, Please post them.

[Neil_Crafter]

Mark
Agree with Tommy, I'm sure there are others who would like to see your photos from your visit there.
cheers Neil

[James Bennett]

Mark
Agree with Tommy, I'm sure there are others who would like to see your photos from your visit there.
cheers Neil

+1

James B

[Andrew Mitchell]

Mark
Agree with Tommy, I'm sure there are others who would like to see your photos from your visit there.
cheers Neil

+1

James B

+2

I'm ashamed to admit that I live less than an hour from Crosland Heath and I've never been there!