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Tim Liddy

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Wave Field
« on: November 08, 2008, 07:57:20 AM »

Philippe Binette

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Re: Wave Field
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2008, 09:06:51 AM »
nothing new:

there's a lot of golf course that are like that on 200 acres

Eric_Terhorst

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Re: Wave Field
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2008, 09:25:51 AM »
Tim,

Hilarious?  I don't know, maybe we need to get the Blue Man Group's take on it to find the humor.

Are you just hurt because she plays in the dirt with bulldozers, but she gets to call her work "the piece" "the installation" or my favorite, the "anti-monument?" And you just call yours "the project"   :D

Why not collaborate with Ms. Lin on your next piece "The Maya Lin Links at Storm King Art Center"?

But truly it seems here you have an untapped and rich vein of new marketing initiatives for golf course architects.

"Seen from afar the piece does suggest an expanse of ocean waves that have been frozen in place, as well as many other things: snowdrifts, a Zen moss garden, perhaps a cluster of the American Indian burial mounds that can be found in the hills of southeastern Ohio, where Ms. Lin grew up."

“It’s a man-made landscape, bringing gravel in and reshaping it,” said David R. Collens, the director of Storm King. “That’s the untold story about the art center.” And as soon as Ms. Lin saw the pit, he said, “her eyes lit up, and that was it for her.”

“I always knew that I wanted to culminate the series with a field that literally, when you were in it, you became lost inside it,” she said, “so the waves had to become much larger than you.”

"Because the site was officially a mine, Mr. Collens had to secure permission from the state Environmental Conservation Department to reclaim it as an artwork. The department has strongly supported the project. Because Ms. Lin is “a committed environmentalist,” as she put it, she was intent on using minimal intervention to turn it into an artwork and making the most of what was already there."

“You need to find a contractor who’s sympathetic and really supportive,” she said, “because they’re basically sculpting the landscape with a bulldozer.”

Wow, all that is from the first few paragraphs of the article...I mean piece.

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Wave Field
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2008, 09:54:44 AM »
Tim,
Funny? Eh.  Interesting? Yes.  Can artist's appear pretentious? Yes.

I remember driving past Storm King when Calder's sculpture was being displayed and several pieces were visible from the highway. It made for a most dramatic sight, even if art appreciation wasn't high on your radar. 

Drive-by art is wonderful idea.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wave Field
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2008, 03:24:56 PM »
  I don't think it's funny in the world outside of golf architecture.  Wise points were made by KBM about its value in the art world and I'm assuming he implies that they don't translate to respected values in golfing landscapes.



  I find Andy Goldsworthy to be a more compelling nature scaper.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 04:40:55 PM by Slag Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wave Field
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2008, 11:06:07 AM »
Is it hilarious because golf course architects have been doing it for centuries, and nature/God before that?  Ironic might be a deeper and more appropriate adjective.

Problem with having a golf course and/or its features declared art is ... no more divots!  Let's take a shag bag of balls to this land-scape and start hacking away.  We'll determine if it is as functional as it is aesthetically appealing.

My question is, where in s/e Ohio did she grow up?  The only artistic community there is Athens, home of Ohio U. and the ACC, a nine-hole Donald Ross design and the beginning of the end for Arnold "The King."  He and young Nicklaus went head-to-head there in an exhibition and Jack promptly drove over the first green, a par four, showing Arnold the sign of the times.  Forget the Steelers v. the Browns...the great Ohio-Pennsylvania rivalry will always be William v. Daniel.
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Tom Naccarato

Re: Wave Field
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2008, 11:36:48 AM »
Like my good friend, and student of the links, Slag Bandoon, Kelly brings up some very interesting points. If someone was to put Julian Schnabel's name on say, a Ted Robinson-designed golf course, the NY Times would be touting it as a visionary art that defines our human existence from very form and function.

Thankfully they are only doing that to some upstate farmer's field!

Desmond Muirhead once told me that when it came to art and architecture for that matter, that form had to follow function--that the purpose of art--the best art was when the medium was utilized for its intended purpose. That it worked. I guess that's why I like golf courses so much; but the thing that Bai Lin actually believes is that someone will use her "art" as a place which they can hide behind these waves and read a book; a place where they can find peace. (it would seem)

Waves are not peaceful. They are very powerful, but they do look graceful from afar. Looking at a wave up close and maybe this comes from my days as a surfer--where seemingly a surfer's quest is to conquer and ride the ultimate wave--I think that is an important point here that waves don't belong in some farm field being emulated for the sake of one's own selfish art form. It just doesn't work for me.

Certainly one could go to a Ted Robinson-designed golf course and see the very same exact thing. Even better, you can see it in even more detail on a Pete or Perry Dye designed golf course, or any golf architect we jabber on and off, day after day here. Whether we like their courses or not, it is for the most part, ART.

And of course just like May Linn, I have my own special terms of what is art and isn't, especially when it comes to golf holes like some of the one's at Friar's Head which to me is HIGH ART! (and this is why I call this hole, North Shore not just because the 9th hole is looking out over Long Island's North Shore with a huge sand dune reminiscent of a giant wave, but also because it reminds me of the waves from Hawaii's North Shore, which is more or less Surfing's St. Andrews....




David_Tepper

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Re: Wave Field
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2008, 02:59:23 PM »
Slag B. -

I am a big Andy Goldsworthy fan as well. He in the process of completing a major outdoors sculpture installation (over 100 feet tall) not more than 100 yards from the 18th green at the Presdio GC in San Francisco.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/25/DDBV13N4GP.DTL&hw=goldsworthy&sn=001&sc=1000

DT

Tom Roewer

Re: Wave Field
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2008, 09:47:57 AM »
Ronald M. -  Maya did grow up in Athens.  Her father was Dean of Fine Arts when I went there.  My former girlfriend baby sat for Maya.  Howard Baker Saunders was also in that exhibition match foursome.  He lost the Ohio Amateur to Arnie I believe the second year Arnie won it consecutively.  Dow Finsterwald rounded out the 4, being a "hometown boy".

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wave Field
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2008, 10:09:03 AM »

Anthony Gray

Re: Wave Field
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2008, 10:18:31 AM »



  Quirky


JNC Lyon

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Re: Wave Field
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2008, 10:32:19 AM »
First of all, Maya Lin is a tremendous artist who used the idea of 'working with the land' to create our country's most compelling war memorial.  Her works are highly controversial in the art and architecture world.  She is, however, one of the best at thinking outside of the box to create great works of art.

It is ironic, then, that she would dismiss the idea of land being use for a golf course.  The idea of form vs. function in golf course architecture.  The best architects (Mackenzie, Ross, Colt, Thompson, Tillinghast, Doak, Dye, C and C) create a perfect balance between the artistry of a golf course and the playability of the individual holes.  In this sense, Maya Lin and Alister Mackenzie have much in common.  They are both trying to find a balance between form and function while using the land to a maximum advantage.  However, her quote that "you don't want a golf course here" demonstrates that Maya Lin does not really think outside the box.  Rather, she possesses a snobbery towards anything outside of her field, which she labels as crude and undesirable.  Her hypocrisy in this article made me lose some respect for her as an artist.

Is the wave field hilarious?  No, I think it is serious, interesting art.  The field's interactive quality allows it to touch viewers in ways that painting or scultupre often cannot.  Is the wave field one of her best works? No.  Unlike the Vietnam War Memorial, the art does not reflect the surrounding land very well.  Rather, it creates a harsh juxtaposition that, unlike FLW's Fallingwater, makes it seem out of place.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Adam Clayman

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Re: Wave Field
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2008, 10:40:12 AM »
JNC, I have question about The Viet Nam war Memorial. Never having seen it in person, it seems to be at a juxtaposition to the land, too. What am I missing?

Couple of thoughts...Tillie's SFGC bunkering and something Dan Proctor once said when we were looking at a Marty Johnson row of uniform moundings. "Sure was nice of Marty to build them mounds so we could put bunkers at the bottom of them."

Also, There was at least one bunker lip on Pac Dunes that evoked a breaking wave.

Seems a bit of a perpetual expense for immovable art. Not to mention how some of the resident critters will react. Is it dry crop or irrigated? ;)
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

JNC Lyon

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Re: Wave Field New
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2008, 10:46:01 AM »
JNC, I have question about The Viet Nam war Memorial. Never having seen it in person, it seems to be at a juxtaposition to the land, too. What am I missing?

The memorial is carved out of a pre-existing bank.  The viewer starts at one end, which is at the top of bank.  He then descends along a path as he views the memorial, reaching the bottom elevation in the middle of the memorial.  He then ascends back up again, with end of the memorial also even with the top of the bank.  The memorial is certainly a juxtaposition of man and nature, and the black color of the wall creates a stark contrast that makes it visible from great distance.  However, the monument, by being carved out of bank, much like a bunker is carved out of a hill, works with pre-existing land forms rather than clashing with or simply ignoring nature.

Here is the original sketch of the image:

« Last Edit: November 10, 2008, 10:49:09 AM by JNC_Lyon »
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas