Another big fan of Monroe

[Dan Herrmann]

Do yourself a big favor and DVR the LPGA Championship.  Monroe is a tremendously underrated (or unnoticed) Ross gem - now with Hanse tweaks.

I love this course, and hope you enjoy what you see this weekend.

[Philip Caccamise]

John - will do.

What's sad about Monroe is the lack of respect it gets in Rochester.  My non-golfing sister-in-law knew all about Oak Hill, CCR, etc, but kind of was surprised when I told her how amazing Monroe was to play.

She had been to their clubhouse for some events, but said she never heard any of her friends talking about Monroe's golf course.

In my opinion, that's because prior to the Hanse renovation it was languishing as a "social" club for the old and rich Pittsford-Penfield-Fairport set rather than a golfer's club. It has always been regarded as prestigious in terms of social circles but the (GREAT) golf course was taking a back seat. I haven't been back since the renovation- watching the LPGA coverage today it looks amazing. The 14th was the first birdie I ever made in competition as an 11 year old in a junior tournament, and the first eagle in competition too in a high school event. So I like that hole 

I am truly saddened by the LPGA leaving Rochester, the passion for women's golf there far surpasses anywhere I've ever been. Locust Hill had definitely worn out its welcome but a rotation of courses would be fantastic.

[Ed Homsey]

Spent 7 hours out on Monroe's golf course during an LPGA practice round, this week.  Mainly just looking at the course.  Had played it several years ago, in a cart, and even with my good memory of golf courses, I could not retrace my steps there.  But, I was anxious to get back out there and see it, especially after Gil Hanse had done his work there.  Following the practice round, I spent another full day watching the second round of the LPGA Championship.  I agree with those who say that Monroe's course has been underappreciated in the Rochester area.  In my ranking of courses in our area, I had Monroe 4th or 5th, behind Oak Hill's two courses and CCR.  I was blown away by the course.  The wonderful terrain, the siting of greens, the distinctive character of each hole.  I think it is the equal of Oak Hill's West course, which I've long considered the best golf course in the Rochester area.  I appreciate learning about those greens that are not original Ross greens.  Was not aware of that till reading this thread.  However, I'm puzzled by the descriptions of #13.  I watched several groups go through there yesterday and recognized, of course, that it was proving to be a tough challenge.  For a time, I stood at the back of the green to watch players hitting shots out of the back greenside bunker, including Suzann Pettersen and Stacy Lewis.  From my perspective, they were hitting onto a section of the green that was sloping away from them, and given the back left pin position, there was no way they could stop the ball within 10-12 feet past the pin. 

[Rob Marshall]

John - will do.

What's sad about Monroe is the lack of respect it gets in Rochester.  My non-golfing sister-in-law knew all about Oak Hill, CCR, etc, but kind of was surprised when I told her how amazing Monroe was to play.

She had been to their clubhouse for some events, but said she never heard any of her friends talking about Monroe's golf course.

In my opinion, that's because prior to the Hanse renovation it was languishing as a "social" club for the old and rich Pittsford-Penfield-Fairport set rather than a golfer's club. It has always been regarded as prestigious in terms of social circles but the (GREAT) golf course was taking a back seat. I haven't been back since the renovation- watching the LPGA coverage today it looks amazing. The 14th was the first birdie I ever made in competition as an 11 year old in a junior tournament, and the first eagle in competition too in a high school event. So I like that hole  

I am truly saddened by the LPGA leaving Rochester, the passion for women's golf there far surpasses anywhere I've ever been. Locust Hill had definitely worn out its welcome but a rotation of courses would be fantastic.

For a club that is not a golfers club they have a heck of a lot of really great golfers come out of there.

The course is fairly straight forward off the tee. It's a second shot course. Hit your approach shots above the pin and you are in for a long day. It's the 4th best course in Rochester. Oak Hill east, CCR, OH West, and then Monroe. It's always in great shape. Probably the best area around the 18th green to have drink after a round and watch groups come in.

[Ed Homsey]

I'm willing very to debate that Monroe Golf Club's course is superior to the Country Club of Riochester's, and I'm very much aware of its reputation in the Rochester area.  However, in my opinion, the changes made at CCR by RTJones seriously disrupted the natural low of the course.  The course is no longer the gem that it was before they decided to alter the course in order to build a practice range.  I find it hard to respect Oak Hill East because of the number of face-lifts it has had by the Fazio group; each of which have been solely aimed toward attracting major championships.  It reminds me of Joan Rivers, whom I loved at one time.  Oak Hill West is a different story, and very worthy of the "best course in Rochester" designation.  I would not argue that, though I would stand by Monroe.

[John Foley]

Ed,

I'm in big agreement w/ Monroe vs CCR. I struggle with CCR's place as I don't think there are any truly great holes out there. 17 & 18 are strong but are they great?

[Philip Caccamise]

John - will do.

What's sad about Monroe is the lack of respect it gets in Rochester.  My non-golfing sister-in-law knew all about Oak Hill, CCR, etc, but kind of was surprised when I told her how amazing Monroe was to play.

She had been to their clubhouse for some events, but said she never heard any of her friends talking about Monroe's golf course.

In my opinion, that's because prior to the Hanse renovation it was languishing as a "social" club for the old and rich Pittsford-Penfield-Fairport set rather than a golfer's club. It has always been regarded as prestigious in terms of social circles but the (GREAT) golf course was taking a back seat. I haven't been back since the renovation- watching the LPGA coverage today it looks amazing. The 14th was the first birdie I ever made in competition as an 11 year old in a junior tournament, and the first eagle in competition too in a high school event. So I like that hole  

I am truly saddened by the LPGA leaving Rochester, the passion for women's golf there far surpasses anywhere I've ever been. Locust Hill had definitely worn out its welcome but a rotation of courses would be fantastic.

For a club that is not a golfers club they have a heck of a lot of really great golfers come out of there.

The course is fairly straight forward off the tee. It's a second shot course. Hit your approach shots above the pin and you are in for a long day. It's the 4th best course in Rochester. Oak Hill east, CCR, OH West, and then Monroe. It's always in great shape. Probably the best area around the 18th green to have drink after a round and watch groups come in.

Agreed on both points. Including recently, a USGA Mid-Am runner up to Nathan Smith. But, like CCR, the focus always seemed to me to be the social aspect rather than a hardcore golf club. Maybe I'm being to dismissive based on my own experiences there.

[Rob Marshall]

Ed,

I'm in big agreement w/ Monroe vs CCR. I struggle with CCR's place as I don't think there are any truly great holes out there. 17 & 18 are strong but are they great?

17 and 18 are IMO two of the weakest holes on the course. The new 18th green doesn't fit with the rest of the greens complexes on the course. I can't speak to the changes they made to build the range. Way before my time. Early 60's I think. The only bad hole on the course is 6, which is one of the "new" holes. They have made some changes to make the landing area friendlier. The par 3's are fantastic. The 7th is one of the best par 3's I've ever played. Also one of the "new" holes.  Monroe is a great golf course but not better than CCR.

If you want to play a great 9 in Rochester play the back nine at Irondequit CC.

[Frank M]

Chalk me up as another fan of Monroe.

Was out there last year and loved the place. Same trip played Oak Hill (East & West) and Irondequoit, and though I thought all were great with significant differences between them, Monroe is the one I'd want to play day after day....that includes CCR.

Irondequoit was the sleeper of the bunch...took me by surprise and a great one at that.

[PGertner]

Monroe vs CCR? To me, it is no contest, Monroe in a landslide. CCR doesn't have the topography, routing, natural beauty or green sites.
Still way to many trees however and a membership that doesn't get it….

Patrick Gertner
East Greenwich, RI 

[Dan Herrmann]

Patrick - which membership doesn't get it?  CCR or Monroe?

[PGertner]

I was referring to Monroe's membership which I know well, unfortunately….

[Ed Homsey]

Reminds me of a conversation I had with one of the founders of the Ross Society in the mid-'90s.  He referred to Monroe as one of the great Ross courses in Rochester, with the disclaimer that "the members aren't aware of what they have".  While exploring the Monroe clubhouse, this week, I was struck by the absence of reference to Donald Ross.  In one display case, a map of the original Ross course.  Elsewhere in the clubhouse, there were some beautiful, non-golf related paintings.  Amazed that they don't have something--like a Ross Room, or Grill, that celebrates their distinguished history.  I'm hoping that I missed something.

[Ed Homsey]

Does anyone out there have information about the changes that Cornish and/or Silva brought to Monroe golf club?

[PGertner]

Cornish changed the 1st green in the early 1960's. Those green surrounds were altered by Gil Hanse in the 2007 or 2008.

Brian Silva built the current 11th green (mid 90's) the third 11th green they have had. Original was a punchbowl. Silva also added the left bunker on 15 fairway, that was probably changed again by Hanse. Silva re-contoured fairways in 1988.

The 12th green was rebuilt in house, mid 1980's, using vague plans from an architect that was never officially hired to do the work.

All other restorations were done by Gil. All other greens sites and surfaces are original. Trees still need to come down, especially spruces. Membership resists.

Patrick Gertner
East Greenwich, RI

[Rob Marshall]

Cornish changed the 1st green in the early 1960's. Those green surrounds were altered by Gil Hanse in the 2007 or 2008.

Brian Silva built the current 11th green (mid 90's) the third 11th green they have had. Original was a punchbowl. Silva also added the left bunker on 15 fairway, that was probably changed again by Hanse. Silva re-contoured fairways in 1988.

The 12th green was rebuilt in house, mid 1980's, using vague plans from an architect that was never officially hired to do the work.

All other restorations were done by Gil. All other greens sites and surfaces are original. Trees still need to come down, especially spruces. Membership resists.

Patrick Gertner
East Greenwich, RI

Patrick, not sure when you were in Rochester if you ever played or visited Penfield CC. We could remove 500++pine trees that are snuffing out some beautiful Oaks. Our greenskeeper Don Bloom would love us to give him the funds to take them all out. I've probably played Monroe 30 times and I've never noticed an over abundance of spruces in the playing areas anyway. The fairways are wide enough that I never really thought the trees were a problem.

[Ed Homsey]

In general, there is an openness to Monroe.  I did not feel suffocated by the trees, and though I do not like to see spruce or pine trees on a course, I would hate to see them get rid of that cluster of pines back of the 15th.  It was a joy walking by those trees in the morning with the strong fragrance of pine wafting through the air.  They don't come into play, unless you badly hozel one off the 16th, so my vote would be for them to stay.  On the other hand, there are a lot of trees on that property.

Thanks, Patrick, for the rundown on course changes made by Cornish and Silva. 

[PGertner]

Rob,

I am very familiar with PCC....my dad was a member way back in 1968 and remember the "Tees for Trees" program that provided funding for thousands of trees at PCC. I have communicated with Don and know he has been addressing the issues....three cheers!!

In my opinion, it isn't playing avenues that trees are affecting....it is turf quality and the blocking of wonderful views from areas of both courses. From PCC's 5th tee, I'd love to be able to see the 3rd and 4th holes, maybe the 8th green....7 and 6. Last time I was there, (with Bino) that wasn't possible. From the 10th tee...it would also be cool to see all of 10 and 11....and who knows what else with aggressive thinning!

I have been at Potowomut GC in RI for 10 seasons, and this past winter we removed our 2500th tree during my tenure. Members love it, turf is much better and we enjoy many views and vistas that no one ever knew were there!!

You and most welcome Mr. Homsey....I have been gone for a while but a part of me will always remain at MGC!!

Patrick Gertner
Potowomut Golf Club
East Greenwich, RI 

[Rob Marshall]

Pat,
Don has done a great job since he began at PCC. The TONS of sand he has put into our greens has really paid off. I played OH East twice this year and I thought our greens were quicker and much smoother. He just got done over seeing the installation of our new sprinkler system.

Don has removed many of the trees from behind the 5th green and it looks great. Not quite as much as you would like but still a great improvement.  He also has removed  a bunch that were behind the 13th and 15th greens. We're working on it but have a long way to go.

At your club how did you go about the removal process? Did you tackle one specific hole at a time or move thru the course hitting what you thought were the worse areas one at a time?

I haven't seen Bino in a few years. I know he's down in your neck of the woods now. Great guy.

[Kevin Lynch]

Patrick, not sure when you were in Rochester if you ever played or visited Penfield CC. We could remove 500++pine trees that are snuffing out some beautiful Oaks. Our greenskeeper Don Bloom would love us to give him the funds to take them all out. I've probably played Monroe 30 times and I've never noticed an over abundance of spruces in the playing areas anyway. The fairways are wide enough that I never really thought the trees were a problem.

I've played in the Member / Guest at Penfield for the past 3 years and that is a phenomenal course just waiting to be dug out from the walls of trees.  They've definitely been making progress with the removal, but it's amazing how expensive it is to reverse the relatively cheap planting of excessive pines.

The set-up of the greens this past event was on par with what I saw at Merion a few weeks earlier.  The greens were very firm without being ridiculous, and really ensured that playing angles mattered again.  For example, if you came up just short and left of 10, you had almost no chance of getting up & down, yet alone stopping on the green.  

I'm hoping Don can convince the membership that the firm, sloped greens will eliminate the need for narrow playing corridors choked out by trees.  At the very least, I'd like to see some of the walls of trees thinned out to provide even a small possibility of recovery.  There are so many area where 20 trees are planted, where the same objective could be accomplished with 2 or 3 judicious survivors (especially when there are specimen trees hidden in there, as you noted).  

It will take a long time given the cost, but I think Penfield is in great hands right now. And all that is on top of the awesome and casual membership at the club - absolutely the most comfortable club for a member/guest.