I've got a feeling....

[Don_Mahaffey]

ahhh...delete this thread

Joe, I've been hitting the range getting ready.

I really thought someone would make a strong run. I wasn't there, but Sat. seemed to have more energy, today seemed like your basic grind it out US Open day, yesterday seemed like there was magic in the air.

I know Tiger played great, but I believe I've seen him play better. Has anyone ever had such confidence in their game or managed themselves better? I doubt it. I was impressed by the two shots he hit at 13, but his course management for the entire tournament was a model. As always in the big ones, it's not how many birdies, it's how many bogies you make

[TEPaul]

Don't worry about it Don, I sort of had the same feeling you did but I did say on here don't put real money on that feeling! Do you realize this guy has won 7 out of the last 11 majors. The time is probably here that if you want to bet him to win you're going to have to give odds against the field--that hasn't even remotely happened before!

[David Wigler]

Don,

I cannot resist mentioning the bet we made off line where I took Tiger and you got the field.  I will enjoy collecting in July.  The irony is that you were right.  Tiger was average on Sunday.  In fact, Tiger played the weekend 1-over par.  The problem is that none of the rest of them has what it takes to chase him down.  Was it just me or did Mickelson look relieved when he three-putted from 15 feet to end his charge.  Garcia collapsed.  Maggert played for third.  Tiger will win because he knows he is the best and everyone else knows he is the best and they all play for second!  Even when he was at his very best, I would never have bet Nicklaus against the field.  Watson, Palmer, Miller, Player, Trevino, etc. would step up and beat Jack if he did not have his a game.  No one can do that with Tiger.  Interesting stat: At this age, Jack had 7 majors and 4-second place finishes.  Tiger has 8 majors and 0 seconds.  If he is in the hunt, he wins.

[Dave_Miller]

Don:

Tiger opened the door witht that two bogey start and nobody really could get through before he slammed it shut again.  It's almost surreal the way he can put the peddle to the metal when he needs to.  

Not his day?  I don't think so.  He made it a lettle exciting but nobody could catch him.

Best
Dave

[JakaB]

Spongeflop Happypants looked like he just was made manager of the Crusty Crab when all he did was piss away a chance to invent a new Crab Cake.   Money has turned this game into a short guys NBA...I can't wait to see Cribs on the Golfchannel.

[Bruceski]

Sergio worships Tiger. He's like Tiger's little brother. He'll never surpass him because he's too in love with him. Tiger's world revolves around Tiger. So does Sergio's.

Floppy is great. But he's not great enough. How could he improve? He played smart golf (for once), and he still comes in second. When will he stop following up every birdie with an ugly bogey?

I'm only praying that Chuckie Howell (whom I followed a bit on Saturday and is a real nice guy -- actually looking at me in the eye on the 12th tee and thanking me for complimenting him on his previous birdie at the 11th -- I felt like a swooning Beatles-worshipping little 60's girl after that!) grows some sack and matches a Tiger-like mental game to his prodigious talent. Chuckie can bomb the ball like anyone on the course.

[JSlonis]

Shivas,

"Somebody throw some numbers at Tiger?"...Bob May did throw some numbers Tiger's way at Valhalla in the PGA, I think about 66-66 on the weekend. I realize Bob May is no Watson or Trevino and Valhalla is no Bethpage or Oakmont, but numbers are numbers and Tiger responded like he always has...HE WINS!!!

Do people not understand the greatness of Tiger? Each major he seems to prove his physical and mental game are miles ahead of the competition. He is the single most dominant athelete in sports. In 2000 at Pebble he kicked everybody's A** so bad that he had to set a new goal for his final round just to keep his interest...Make No Bogeys in the final round was his goal...he did just that.

I'm sure Tiger would love the challenge if someone stepped up, but he continues to find a way to win no matter the circumstance: the sign of a true champion and competitor.

[David Kelly]

Tiger won the golf tournament on Friday and the rest was just waiting around until the trophy presentation.

Firday's Second Round Scores
1 WOODS, Tiger    68
2 MICKELSON, Phil  73
3 MAGGERT, Jeff    73
4 GARCIA, Sergio   74
5 HOCH, Scott      75  
5 FALDO, Nick       76
5 MAYFAIR, Billy    74
8 PRICE, Nick        75

[TEPaul]

I'm completely with Jamie Slonis on this one. Tiger Woods is one great golfer, period, end of story. I can't really understand why so many of you guys think the reason for his ongoing success is all these other bozos are fainting every time they go head to head with him.

If a guy like Jack Nicklaus, of all people, can seriously admit and say the things he has about Woods why in God's name are all of you having such a hard time doing so? I guess somehow Jack doesn't understand some of the real interworkings of the Tour and Championship golf, the winning and the losing of it all, huh?

As for Mickelson, he's trying his ass off--so what the hell if he doesn't play golf the way some 10 handicappers think he should? Sure the guy is in the shadow of Woods, who wouldn't be? But he'll keep trying and one of these days he's gonna run him down and then all you guys are probably gonna say that Mickelson is no good anyway and Woods must be washed up or in a slump or something!

You're probably watching the best golfer of all time, you should just accept it and enjoy it! That all there is to it except for some incidental fact like he really is the second coming of Christ like Earl says he is! But what the hell difference does that make out there in the heat of Championship battle anyway because Lee Trevino already told all you couch potatoes that even God couldn't hit a one iron all that well!

[David Wigler]

Tom,

I think our comments on Tiger (For sure mine) may be misunderstood.  I agree that he is the best golfer of all time.  Heck, I bet on Tiger and gave Don the entire rest of the field.  The problem is that there is no one to frame him against.  How good a boxer was Larry Holmes (Or Mike Tyson in his prime).  It is easy to determine how good Ali was since we saw him against Foreman, Fraiser, Norton, et al.  We knew Secretariat was a great horse but it took Belmont to frame him in history (Much like it took Pebble to frame Tiger).  Affirmed was easy to frame after his battles with Alydar.  

I agree with Bob May.  My first thought was Steve Scott in Tiger's second amateur.  What I really want to see is Bob May be Ernie Els, or Duval, or Sergio, or Mickelson and see how it goes.  My second most memorable Jack moment (After winning the '86 Masters) is the dual where Watson beat him.  If Watson had been Larry Rinker (A Bob May type) would it have been as memorable - of course not.  It is not Tiger's fault that none of the top competitors have the balls to throw down with him but it does make his legacy much harder to frame than Jack's.  Simply put, Tiger is the best golfer on earth.  That written, he was over par on the weekend in a major and still never challenged.  That is a shame.

[TEPaul]

David:

I don't agree that there's no one to frame Tiger Woods against. The problem with Woods in that regard is he's so good he just makes it look like there's no one to frame him against!

These players he's competing against are good players in any era but it doesn't seem so because he's so dominant! It's not them--it's him!

Put another way, if you put Woods's top contenders in another era they'd do better than they are today, probably much better.

The way a lot of people look at Woods and the players that are primarily contending against him is not much more than a glass half full or half empty!

And, by the way, as far as being misunderstood--that's OK--I seem to be making a career of being misunderstood!

[David Wigler]

Tom,

You watched more of the greats than I did.  Do you believe that Nicklaus or Watson would have missed the putt that Mickelson did on 17?  Mickelson missed a 10-footer on 16, a 15-footer and a 2-footer on 17 and a 20-footer on 18.  He lost by three.  Mickelson is the second rated player in the world.  I believe Jack had so many seconds because Watson, Trevino and Player hit those putts (Or chipped in) down the stretch.  I do not believe that Duval, Mickelson, etc. would have done better in an earlier era.  Mickelson would have won a lot of events but still would have choked in Majors to Jack or Tom.  Remember when Jack said that most the field knows they cannot beat him and he knows it too.  Today's players may have more talent than the previous generation but the 10-cent brains would still let them down.

Tiger destroys the field in any era win he has his A game for the week (Witness Augusta, Pebble or St. Andrews).  What is frustrating is that he shows up with his C game for the weekend and no one pushes him.  Nicklaus could not get away with that.

[A_Clay_Man]

I saw a stat that put things into some perspective (not perfect but some)

Relation to par in majors; Tiger, -81  Jack Nicklaus, +32

The is some framework there, isn't there?

[David Kelly]

David W.
If we examined Nicklaus' performance in each major we would find more than a couple times when he gave a championship away.

Here is Herbert Warren Wind writing about the 1971 US Open at Merion:
"Though Nicklaus has won more major championships than any other golfer since Jones, he has never quite attained the same stature as Hogan, largely because of his strange susceptibility to giant-size, irremediable errors in critical passages."

Wind then goes on to detail a few of Nicklaus' critical errors that cost him majors. In fact you could say he gave the 71 Open away as well.

[TEPaul]

Adam:

Could you elaborate on that majors stat you produced? Is that Woods and Nicklaus to par over their careers or at the same time in their careers or what? I think that needs some clarification--the difference is shocking!

[David Kelly]

Nicklaus played a lot of majors when he was past his prime (at least 40) so that would probably account for the difference in the +/- stats.