17 at Pacific Dunes

[Mike Leveille]

I had the pleasure of playing at Bandon and Pacific Dunes last week - an absolutely tremendous golf experience!  I thought Bandon was very good and Pacific was great.

Although I cannot think of a hole at Pacific that I did not enjoy, I do have a question regarding the playability of the par 3 17th hole (Redan), at least in the summer.  Without question this is a visually appealing hole, and Tom Doak seems to have provided the necessary area short right of the green to play a running draw on to the green.  However, does this work in practice with the summer prevailing wind?  When I played PD, there was a solid 3 club wind from the N-NW.  I was told that this is the prevailing wind direction in the summer and that a 3 club wind is common (true?).  On 17, a N-NW wind seems to blow at a right handed golfer’s back and slightly in his face.  Make it a 3 club wind, and the result (at least for our group) was that it was next to impossible to play anything resembling the controlled draw that the hole seems to favor.  Each tee shot we hit got out about 75-100 yards and then got hammered to the right by the wind, with a resulting weak fade/slice that ran up the hill and away from the green.  Perhaps we just played on an unusually windy day - make it a 1-2 club N-NW wind and I think the shot is much more playable.  Perhaps we just are not good enough to pull off the shot, though all the players in our group have single digit handicaps.  I assume that 17 is much more playable with the winter prevailing wind, which I understand to be from the south.

In my opinion, one of the major attributes of BD and PD is that they have generally been designed (wide fairways, etc.) to be playable even in strong winds (this seems especially true of PD, as most of the holes seem to run either directly into or down wind with the summer N-NW wind).  Give me 17 at PD with any wind other than a strong N-NW wind, and I say it is a very good hole.  With the strong N-NW wind, it does not quite work for me.

I would be interested in hearing what others who have played PD think about my take on 17.  In any event, I cannot wait to get back and play both courses again!

[Slag_Bandoon]

It is a tough hole in the prevailing wind of summer but it is the 17th hole and the variable effects of that wind should be a bit more understood near the end of a round.  Can we trust that variable to be constant?  Is it designed for a draw?  Perhaps Doak just wants us to think that.  Holding the green is the most important thing on the hole, I feel.  Whatever shot that is.  
I am a bit curious to know where the Keizer tees are on this hole.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I would kill for a 2 club wind there. I like the hole and it played 200 to 230 for me counting the wind. I hit a 5 wood my 200 to 210 club to bounce it in,  a low 2 iron once to run it in and a punch 3 wood the other. I landed short each time and let it feed.

[Jeff_Lewis]

Mike,
I had the exact same impression you did when I played there a few weeks ago. This was the only hole where the logic of the design escaped me. From what the caddies said, 75-85% of the rounds on this course would be played where the Redan-ish quality of the hole can't come into play because of the wind. I didn't get it at all. Turn the hole around, perhaps.

[Yancey_Beamer]

The day I played 17 the wind was strong and the caddy recommended driver.The ball ballooned up,dropped straight down and held the green.Two putts and I have a par.Fun, but not a redan.I was told that in late summer the winds are mild and the hole plays as a redan.

[suck it up]

come on man!!!  this is splitting hairs.  if it takes sand wedge sand wedge and a one putt for a par than so be it.  this is the game you love

[Mike Leveille]

Suck It Up:

You are right, I am probably splitting hairs - this is the type of golf I love, and PD may be the course I most love.  From the responses of others, I gather that there are other ways to play the hole, even in that kind of wind.  Like I said, I cannot wait to get back and play PD again - every single hole.

[Tom Doak]

Mike,

The wind you played in is the prevailing wind in the summer, particularly in the afternoons, but I would venture to say that only half the rounds played on 17 are in the wind you saw.

The basic form of the green was there when we started, although we did extend the green out to the left, as the hollow originally ran pretty straight along its left side (even worse in the prevailing wind!).  The result is a hole that looks like a Redan, but only plays like a Redan about half the time.  The rest of the time, just hit a driver out to the left and let it fade back into the bank of the green, as Yancey Beamer did.  (There are no bunkers guarding the back-right flank of the green for that reason.)

Sixteen and seventeen are both better holes in the winter months.  (Perhaps fourteen and fifteen as well.)

[Mike Leveille]

As a relative newcomer to the GCA site, I want to take a minute to thank (a) Ran for setting up and maintaining this excellent site, especially all of the course reviews, interviews and other resource materials located outside of the DG (thanks also to those who have provided these materials), (b) all of the regular contributors to the DG for their insights on various aspects of gca, and (c) the architects, such as Tom Doak, who from time to time participate in the DG (I truly appreciate the fact that I can raise a critical issue or question on the DG as to a golf course or hole and receive a non-defensive and well thought-out explanation or answer from the architect of the course/hole).  While I may never have the incredible level of knowledge that others on this site have of gca, I certainly do share the love and appreciation of gca exhibited by others on this site.  Hopefully I will not embarrass myself or unfairly offend others with any of my posts on this site, as I continue to learn about gca.