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Sam Maryland

Re: Loch Lomond up for sale
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2008, 04:20:39 PM »
at a recent meeting of the membership Bill Jones III refused to disclose how many members there are at Sea Island...

...why would a club want to keep that a secret?

SM

I do not believe any private club should have a membership roster.  Few things piss me off more than Christmas cards from members from which I have no more than a passing acquaintance.  I would also prefer names be left off of member lockers. It is nobodies business who or how many belong to any private club.

if I was asked to plunk down $125k to join I'd at least like to know how many other members there are...

...and how many the max is.

SM

John Kavanaugh

Re: Loch Lomond up for sale
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2008, 04:28:17 PM »
at a recent meeting of the membership Bill Jones III refused to disclose how many members there are at Sea Island...

...why would a club want to keep that a secret?

SM

I do not believe any private club should have a membership roster.  Few things piss me off more than Christmas cards from members from which I have no more than a passing acquaintance.  I would also prefer names be left off of member lockers. It is nobodies business who or how many belong to any private club.

if I was asked to plunk down $125k to join I'd at least like to know how many other members there are...

...and how many the max is.

SM

What if you were asked to join Augusta National and they refused to set a max number and would not divulge a membership roster?  Would that be a deal breaker?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Loch Lomond up for sale
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2008, 05:01:56 PM »
John,

I can only say that this analogy would definitly apply in this case.

"During a 1988 vice presidential debate in Omaha, Bentsen delivered one of the most devastating slights ever. Turning to his GOP opponent, Sen. Dan Quayle, who had defended his inexperience as similar to that of John F. Kennedy, Bentsen responded with scathing disdain: "Senator," he said, "I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you are no Jack Kennedy."

Sam Maryland

Re: Loch Lomond up for sale
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2008, 05:48:36 PM »
at a recent meeting of the membership Bill Jones III refused to disclose how many members there are at Sea Island...

...why would a club want to keep that a secret?

SM

I do not believe any private club should have a membership roster.  Few things piss me off more than Christmas cards from members from which I have no more than a passing acquaintance.  I would also prefer names be left off of member lockers. It is nobodies business who or how many belong to any private club.

if I was asked to plunk down $125k to join I'd at least like to know how many other members there are...

...and how many the max is.

SM

What if you were asked to join Augusta National and they refused to set a max number and would not divulge a membership roster?  Would that be a deal breaker?

if Augusta had a massive real estate development attached to it and also advertised the return of initiation fees as a feature of the package...

...then yes, it would.

SM

PS...Augusta is usually about 300 members, here's a link to the membership roster from a few years ago:  http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/masters/2002-09-27-augusta-list.htm

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Loch Lomond up for sale
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2008, 05:18:59 AM »
JK et all, usually in the UK if a place is sold the members lose all their rights and their cash, if they want to stay members they have to pay the new owners the price they ask. That cannot be good for any members.

99% of UK member clubs are owned and run by the members for the benefit of the members. Membership is non-equity.
Cave Nil Vino

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Loch Lomond up for sale
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2008, 09:08:41 AM »
JK et all, usually in the UK if a place is sold the members lose all their rights and their cash, if they want to stay members they have to pay the new owners the price they ask. That cannot be good for any members.

99% of UK member clubs are owned and run by the members for the benefit of the members. Membership is non-equity.
Mark- I would say that was not totally true as most golf course sales are private between a buyer and seller and the buyer accepts the debt (which could be members pre paid joing fees). Its less than 90% now that are member owned clubs and that figure is likely to go lower all the time. You are totally right that a new buyer calls the shots though.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Loch Lomond up for sale
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2008, 12:27:11 PM »
at a recent meeting of the membership Bill Jones III refused to disclose how many members there are at Sea Island...

...why would a club want to keep that a secret?

SM

I do not believe any private club should have a membership roster.  Few things piss me off more than Christmas cards from members from which I have no more than a passing acquaintance.  I would also prefer names be left off of member lockers. It is nobodies business who or how many belong to any private club.

if I was asked to plunk down $125k to join I'd at least like to know how many other members there are...

...and how many the max is.

SM

What if you were asked to join Augusta National and they refused to set a max number and would not divulge a membership roster?  Would that be a deal breaker?

if Augusta had a massive real estate development attached to it and also advertised the return of initiation fees as a feature of the package...

...then yes, it would.

SM

PS...Augusta is usually about 300 members, here's a link to the membership roster from a few years ago:  http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/masters/2002-09-27-augusta-list.htm

Maybe Mr. Anderson will have to put up his membership at Augusta for sale, as he is a member. ;)

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Loch Lomond up for sale
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2008, 11:15:07 PM »
Looks like it's over for Lyle Anderson:

Golf course community developer Lyle Anderson Cos. has turned over control of four of its largest properties in the U.S. and Europe to the lender.

Loch Lomond Golf Club in Scotland, Hokuli'a in Hawaii, Superstition Mountain in Arizona and Las Campanas in New Mexico all have been taken over by the Bank of Scotland, which had partnered with Anderson on the developments.

Scottsdale, Ariz.-based Anderson had attempted unsuccessfully to negotiate a restructuring of the debt that would have allowed the company to maintain control of the developments. Operation of the properties has been turned over to a management firm, Oasis Management Resources.

The Bank of Scotland's parent company has been hit by heavy losses because of its exposure in the U.S. subprime lending meltdown and is merging with Lloyds TSB Group.

Chairman Lyle Anderson, who previously has developed projects such as Desert Highlands and Desert Mountain in Arizona, said that he would work with the bank in hopes of either finding new owners for the projects or arranging for new financing that would allow his company to maintain ownership.


Tony Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Loch Lomond up for sale
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2008, 01:47:13 AM »
at a recent meeting of the membership Bill Jones III refused to disclose how many members there are at Sea Island...

...why would a club want to keep that a secret?

SM

I do not believe any private club should have a membership roster.  Few things piss me off more than Christmas cards from members from which I have no more than a passing acquaintance.  I would also prefer names be left off of member lockers. It is nobodies business who or how many belong to any private club.

if I was asked to plunk down $125k to join I'd at least like to know how many other members there are...

...and how many the max is.

SM

What if you were asked to join Augusta National and they refused to set a max number and would not divulge a membership roster?  Would that be a deal breaker?

if Augusta had a massive real estate development attached to it and also advertised the return of initiation fees as a feature of the package...

...then yes, it would.

SM

PS...Augusta is usually about 300 members, here's a link to the membership roster from a few years ago:  http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/masters/2002-09-27-augusta-list.htm

Maybe Mr. Anderson will have to put up his membership at Augusta for sale, as he is a member. ;)

My boy T. Boone Pickens is a member as well... Who would'a thunk?  ;)

Desert Mountain has a small roster of member from Loch Lomond, and they ALL made for some great times... And raved about the course. Someday... I can also understand why the club would have a "corporate" feel to it. That's typical of Lyle, in my personal experience.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 01:51:53 AM by Tony Petersen »
Ski - U - Mah... University of Minnesota... "Seven beers followed by two Scotches and a thimble of marijuana and it's funny how sleep comes all on it's own.”

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Loch Lomond up for sale
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2008, 03:39:40 AM »
So who owns Dundonald ?

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Loch Lomond up for sale
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2008, 08:12:54 PM »
http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/Lewandowski-leads-club-members-bidding.4750290.jp

Lewandowski leads club members bidding for Loch Lomond buyout
Date: 02 December 2008
By Glenn Gibbons

MEMBERS of Loch Lomond Golf Club are attempting to raise £100million to buy-out its American owners and rescue one of Scotland's most exclusive organisations from financial calamity. Spearheading the move to take over is the former Hibernian chairman, Ken Lewandowski.

Loch Lomond, which hosts the Barclays Scottish Open and also owns Dundonald, the links course in Ayrshire, is still officially owned by Lyle Anderson of Arizona, but its debt at Bank of Scotland has forced the latter to assume control by placing it iADVERTISEMENTn the hands of a New York-based re-financing company, who are now actively seeking potentials buyers.

With around 800 members, the vast majority reputedly in possession of personal fortunes that would justify the description "plutocrats", the projected selling price would require each to put up £125,000. But, as Lewandowski pointed out, "it would almost certainly be an equity-based proposal. Some members would want to take a number of shares, while others may not want to buy in at all, but remain members of the club."

Niall Flanagan, general manager of Loch Lomond, revealed that there is interest from "eight or nine parties from the Middle East, Europe and America," although actual offers have yet to be received. Flanagan also suggested that a membership buy-out would not only be the most suitable solution to the club's present difficulties, but would be among the favourites in any betting on who would be Loch Lomond's next owners.

The recently-formed, eight-strong Members Executive Committee, met yesterday for the first time to discuss possible strategies, but it is likely to be some time before it is determined that purchase of the club by the members is possible. Lewandowski is currently Loch Lomond's 'Captain for Scotland'.

Recent developments have clearly caused a certain resentment among members, not least of them an increase in annual fees which, for those based in Europe, have more than doubled. The previous £3,250 per annum is to go up to £7,000, for European members, while 'international' members – that is, most those domiciled in America – will rise by £500 to £3,750.

It seems reasonable to infer that the hike in subscriptions is a form of insurance against the eventuality of no buyers being found. Since the golf club does not make a profit – "it is very close to profitability", said Flanagan – anyone wishing to purchase would probably have to do so for reasons of prestige, as opposed to a return on their investment. Or they would have to find a way of making the business profitable.

Since Anderson himself had been looking in vain for a buyer for the 18 months before Bank of Scotland effectively took control of the company nine weeks ago – the search started long before the global economic downturn – it is hardly surprising that agreement among the members to make an offer would make them favourites to assume ownership.

The bank put the running of Loch Lomond into the hands of Marotta, Gund, Budd and Dzera on 20 October and appointed Stephen Marotta and Philip Gund as the directors to whom the present management are directly accountable. So far, little has changed, but, as well as increasing revenue, it seems likely that the present running costs of £9million a year will have to be addressed.

"It takes a lot to run a club like this," said Flanagan. "We have 151 permanent, full-time staff and that figure goes up to 350 in the summer, with so many part-time workers required. The costs of maintaining Rossdhu House (the 18th-century clubhouse] are very high and, naturally, it is expensive to maintain the golf course itself as one of the best in the world.

"But we are good employers for the local area, for Balloch and Alexandria at Loch Lomond and for Ayr at Dundonald. We wouldn't want to see that change."

There is, for the time being at least, no threat to the Scottish Open itself, as Barclays are committed to their sponsorship agreement for another four years. Indeed, it is expected that next summer's tournament will boast its most attractive field ever, thanks to a number of factors.

"It has become an iconic event for Scotland," said Flanagan. "When pictures of Loch Lomond at the Scottish Open go around the world, there is no doubt that it helps tourism here. It is a very attractive tournament, with crowd of 25,000 a day coming here, and that's mainly because it is staged on such a wonderful golf course in a magnificent location.

"Now that the Race For Dubai is part of the European Tour, we expect the field next year to be the best yet. We believe there will be more US PGA Tour players and more Australians. The fact that the Open Championship is to be played just down the road at Turnberry the week after will also be a help.

"And, because of the Race For Dubai, players wishing to qualify for that by remaining members of the European Tour, now have to play 12 tournaments a year instead of 11. An extra one may not sound much, but it can be difficult for many who also play in America.

"In that respect, the Scottish Open is perfectly placed, just a week ahead of the Open itself. We are confident players who haven't been here before will be here from now on."

IN NUMBERS

100,000,000
Asking price for Loch Lomond Golf Club

800
Membership of the exclusive course

125,000
Average contribution required from each member to fund buy-out

3,250
Existing annual fees for members

7,000
New fees for members in Europe

3,750
New fees for international members

151
Full-time 'permanent' employees at Loch Lomond

350
Employment level at club during the summer

92
Number of international members who paid their annual subscription last year but did not play the course once

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Loch Lomond up for sale
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2008, 08:35:09 PM »
125,000 pounds for one membership, or .....
a membership at Pennard for you and 499 friends ;)

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey