Old Macdonald

[Mark Smolens]

Made my very first trip to Bandon last Friday for an IPGA pro-am event.  I now know why I have never spoken to anyone who has been to the resort that did not like it there.  My only regret is that I have not been there before last weekend, and it will definitely not be nine years before I go back.

Because one of the people on the trip was apparently a friend of Mr. Keiser's, all of our groups got the chance to play a "preview" round on 10 of the holes (6-11, 14, and then 3-5).  There were no holes, but we putted to pins.  The scale of the course, which was apparent during our round at Pacific (looking across the course from the 14th tee at Pacific is awesome enough), is epic, but the green complexes are beyond belief.  Prestwick on steroids might come close to being descriptive, but words won't do them justice.  Huge almost beyond belief, with epic slopes and hollows, false fronts, elevations up to them.  An extraordinary thrill ride, and we only got to see ten holes.  I can see why just about every employee we spoke to was so jealous that we had played Old Mac, even on that limited basis.  In my opinion it will be better than one could imagine. . .

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:

I'm sort of pissed that you got to play the ten holes before I did ... I'm headed there next Wednesday.  But thanks for the good word, anyway.  Except that I still don't like analogies to steroids, which are a bad thing.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tom,

I can't imagine ALL of the greens are HUGE (maybe they are)... what's the variance in sizes?

Just curious.

[PCCraig]

Lucky!

Of all of the courses at Bandon, this is the one I am most excited to see next year. I think it is the most ambitious and unique courses to be built in a long time.

[Todd Kuspira]

Mark,
Thank you for your report.  I had the opportunity to take a tour of the course with Jim Urbina 10 days ago and I agree with you...the scale of the property is huge.  There are fantastic tributes to TOC and remarkable green sites.  Jim and his staff should be very proud of their work at Old Mac and I look forward to seeing and playing the finished product.

Todd

[Adam Clayman]

The scale is huge as is the freedom it implies. Mark, Ben pointed you out as we sat down for supper @ the Trails as you walked off the course. Luckily for you as I started to get up to go out and meet you, you started to run away. Did someone warn you? Or just hurrying to catch the shuttle?  

[Mark Smolens]

Adam, sorry we missed connecting as Ben mentioned that you were there when I ran into him on the shuttle to the practice center (Jerry K, you should be proud that your gca carry bag caused at least one meeting of members of the treehouse, as Ben saw my bag as soon as I sat down).  If it was Sunday that you saw me, I was probably so pissed at the way that Trails kicked my butt that I was running off to get on the shuttle so we could go to the range and try to figure something out.  I shoulda stayed and had a beer with you because the range work didn't help .  Next time.

Tom, I see your point about negative connotations, but I guess I just don't see them in this context.  Also, I have two friends whose children are alive today because they take steroids every day.  In the right context, with correct medical (or architectural!) supervision, steroids can be a great thing.

[Kyle Henderson]

You lucky dog. I get to make my first Bandon visit in a couple of weeks. Hopefully I'll get a chance to take a stroll around Old MacDonald, but I'll wait for the course to be completed before I gouge any divots in that sacred turf.

[Brad Klein]

The design consulting team congregates there next week. Greens are anywhere from 8,000 to 18,000 square feet, as I recall. All along, the idea was to make the golf course on an outrageous scale, yet one that works and encourages an appreciation for the ground it sits on.

[Bill Brightly]

I know this has been asked and answered before, but when will the course be open for public play?

[Chuck Brown]

Mark:

I'm sort of pissed that you got to play the ten holes before I did ... I'm headed there next Wednesday.  But thanks for the good word, anyway.  Except that I still don't like analogies to steroids, which are a bad thing.

Tom - Sue him.  Mark has a whole office full of lawsuits.

I can hardly wait to see Old MacDonald.  When will the public be able to make reservations there?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Is the collective GCA world appetite for this course hitting a fever pitch yet. It has for me.

[ChipOat]

Mark Smolens (and Tom Doak):

First, it sounds terrific and I hope I get to play it, someday.  I really can't wait to see the reviews 1-5 years after the opening.  The pictures on a previous thread looked fabulous.

However, I do hope these giant, fantastic greens aren't maintained at 21st Century speeds.  They sound like true Golden Era green complexes; which were designed for much slower "stimps" and the 1.62" ball (which was easier to putt).

I've done two recent threads on this, my latest pet peeve, but I really am getting tired of windmills and clown's noses where the great, dead architects of that era didn't intend them to be.

I've heard that C & C told Easthampton GC they'd build them the greens they wanted but only on the condition that they be maintained at slower speeds than is currently all the rage.  I think Tom Paul can corroborate that.

[Ronald Montesano]

Much like "green complexes" and other overused expressions, I'm sick of the "...on steroids" description.  We played Arcadia Bluffs and that was the expression one of the guys used.  It's such a cop-out and really, a negative.  To me, "on steroids" implies illegally and carelessly amped-up and rotten at the core, as we all know that what steroids initially give, they eventually take away.

[Pete_Pittock]

Short and Biarritz seem as big than the largest double greens at TOC. Short may be five puttable.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm very intrigued by the idea of giant greens, particularly if they are permitted to just naturally follow the rises and falls of the native terrain.   

I'm just as intrigued by an idea (not stated here, but imagined hopefully perhaps) that the green surrounds in every direction will be maintained as tight and firm as (almost) the green itself.   

To me, this would achieve two goals, particularly on sandy soil;

1) You could play virtually any shot from a high lofted one to a rolling putt from anywhere inside 150 yards or so, depending on wind conditions, firmness, etc.

2) A shot that is misdirected will continue to run towards the lower ground after it lands, making for infinitely more interesting approach shots that will need to consider a number of other variables than simply height and distance control to a fixed point.

To me, the best golf on the best courses only begins once the ball hits the ground. 

[Tom_Doak]

Mike Cirba:

You will get your wish, since both Pacific Dunes and Bandon Trails have fairways and greens that are virtually indistinguishable. 

In fact, the only reason I signed on to the huge greens at Old Macdonald was the realization that there isn't much distinction between greens and fairways in Bandon, so if the sizes of some of these are deemed an extravagance, they could easily be shrunk down to a smaller size.  (Interestingly, I remember that the first time I sat down to discuss architecture with Ben Crenshaw, he brought up the same idea.)

I'd like to see you putt from 150 yards, though.  Sixty yards is about the longest at which I've been able to manage the speed.

[Mike Benham]

... I'm sick of the "...on steroids" description.  We played Arcadia Bluffs and that was the expression one of the guys used.  It's such a cop-out and really, a negative. 

Actually, in the description of many modern courses, where 1,000 of yards to dirt is moved, containment mounding created, lakes dug, courses that are "artificially enhanced", the description "on steroids" fits perfectly, and yes, it is a negative and rightly so.

[Rob Rigg]

How much dirt is being moved for OMD?

So does the addition of the 4th course make Bandon without a doubt the best golf destination in the world???

Is Mike Keiser the most successful developer in the history of golf?

Old Macdonald sounds incredible - Junior's college savings are in trouble because it will soon be time for a trip 

[Tom_Doak]

Rob:

Of the holes built so far, the par-4 third and seventh have required a lot of earthmoving, and the fourth and sixth holes have required a modest amount.  Holes 5, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 14 are pretty natural other than a bit of work on the greensites.

[Mike Sweeney]

I'd like to see you putt from 150 yards, though.  Sixty yards is about the longest at which I've been able to manage the speed.

Calling Neil Regan! 

[Peter Galea]

I've heard that NGLA has 6 acres of greens, how does OM compare?

[Neil Regan]

Mike,

  I did happen to putt it in for a 2 from about 95 yards on East #10 on Labor Day. But the pin was in an easy location. 

  And a 3 putt from 165 on East #16, with George B. the other day in Matt Burrows' MS event. But that pin location was very difficult. Kevin Mendik 2-putted from  the back right after 2 very long hickory shots. That was impressive.

[Anthony Gray]

  I want Photos !!!!!!

[Ronald Montesano]

... I'm sick of the "...on steroids" description.  We played Arcadia Bluffs and that was the expression one of the guys used.  It's such a cop-out and really, a negative. 

Actually, in the description of many modern courses, where 1,000 of yards to dirt is moved, containment mounding created, lakes dug, courses that are "artificially enhanced", the description "on steroids" fits perfectly, and yes, it is a negative and rightly so.


So, then, does one apply it to a course one reveres?  In this case, I would think it inappropriate to describe the Farmer as "on steroids."