Challenging Opening 3-hole Stretch of Golf

« **Reply #25 on:** October 31, 2008, 05:27:38 PM »

Royal New Kent. Those first three are MURDER.

« **Reply #26 on:** October 31, 2008, 05:29:08 PM »

Bill S:

At Sanctuary you have holes that go downhill ABRUPTLY.

Gents:

Off the top of my head -- Winged Foot / West is the top answer thus far.

You can also the fourth at WF/W in the event you need a tie-breaker.

« **Reply #27 on:** October 31, 2008, 05:45:26 PM »

Matt: do you think WF-W is clearly more difficult than Pasatiempo in this?

Those were the two I mentioned and I am having a hard time separating them. Whaddya think?

TH

« **Reply #28 on:** October 31, 2008, 06:03:01 PM »

The first three holes at Chicago Golf Club are as stout as they come in Chicagoland. I'd post yardages if I had a scorecard handy.

« **Reply #29 on:** October 31, 2008, 06:41:10 PM »

I still think the opening 4-3-5 at Long Cove is more challenging than any of the courses listed thusfar. Can I get a witness?

« **Reply #30 on:** October 31, 2008, 07:34:41 PM »

Olympic Club- Lake course.

1: Tight tee shot that must fade if you're hitting driver. Second shot with ball below feet (for righties). Jail on either side.

2: Tight, long, uphill par 4 with jail on either side.

3: Long, downhill par 3 with wind blowing hard left to right, bunkers surrounding green.

« **Reply #31 on:** October 31, 2008, 07:41:07 PM »

Quote from: Kyle Henderson on October 31, 2008, 07:34:41 PM

Olympic Club- Lake course.

1: Tight tee shot that must fade if you're hitting driver. Second shot with ball below feet (for righties). Jail on either side.

2: Tight, long, uphill par 4 with jail on either side.

3: Long, downhill par 3 with wind blowing hard left to right, bunkers surrounding green.

Sorry, Kyle.

#1 is a cupcake hole--one of the easiest on teh course, for sure.

« **Reply #32 on:** October 31, 2008, 07:50:02 PM »

I too think Olympic lake has a tremendous start with 2 3 4 5 and 6. 1 is not there but after that the course grabs you sobers you up and then starts kicking you hard. If you are under par going into 7 then your day could be one for the ages.

« **Reply #33 on:** October 31, 2008, 07:55:54 PM »

How about Olympic, except you're in the US Open and you start on #10?

« **Reply #34 on:** October 31, 2008, 08:07:39 PM »

Quote from: Jed Peters on October 31, 2008, 07:41:07 PM

Quote from: Kyle Henderson on October 31, 2008, 07:34:41 PM
Olympic Club- Lake course.

1: Tight tee shot that must fade if you're hitting driver. Second shot with ball below feet (for righties). Jail on either side.

2: Tight, long, uphill par 4 with jail on either side.

3: Long, downhill par 3 with wind blowing hard left to right, bunkers surrounding green.

Sorry, Kyle.

#1 is a cupcake hole--one of the easiest on teh course, for sure.

Well, it was into a 15mph headwind when I played. Is that not common?

« **Reply #35 on:** October 31, 2008, 08:47:59 PM »

Plainfield. Donald Ross made sure you have your A-game right out of the blocks at this course. Long 4, long 4 then longish 3 over water (with water being uncharacteristic of the course, I might add). Of course the undulations in the greens (especially the first) add to the challenge.

James B

« **Reply #36 on:** October 31, 2008, 09:00:27 PM »

Kyle head or crossing which is strongest at the green. It still is a fairly easy par 5 that is driver iron or rescue and wedge. Actually the hard shot is the 3rd one where the wind is deceptive and the fairway traps create optical illusion. I have seen many good drive and lay up end in bogie.

« **Reply #37 on:** October 31, 2008, 09:01:34 PM »

I seem to recall Royal Aberdeen's opening trio to be quite difficult yet most interesting because of the par 4,5,3 sequence.

Ciao

« **Reply #38 on:** October 31, 2008, 10:40:43 PM »

Wannamoisett

« **Reply #39 on:** October 31, 2008, 11:59:07 PM »

I agree w/ Tom and Spaulds. Pasa (as is) is one tough order. I also agree w/ Spaulds mention of Engineers. Brutal (but awesome) green on one. Very, very tough approach on 2, and very close to the same difficulty to the 3rd at Pasa's w/ 3.

« **Reply #40 on:** November 01, 2008, 12:14:17 AM »

oakmont's 1st and 3rd holes are tough - but hole 2 is very short - heck they played it at 305 yds at the 2007 open on day 4 -

chicago golf club - hole 1- 450 yds a meaty start / hole 2 - the road hole with the new tee box is over 460 yds / hole 3 - 225 yd Biarritz / and hole 4 even though it is a relatively short par 5 by today's standards - the green is diabolical - add some wind and the fescue this past season and if the greens are fast and firm - it might be the toughest opening stretch out there.

« **Reply #41 on:** November 01, 2008, 02:09:09 AM »

Quote from: Greg Krueger on October 31, 2008, 04:59:08 PM

Two of the toughest starts that I have played would have to be Hazeltine & Wade Hampton.

Hazeltine: #1 460 yd. Par 4 Right off the bat you need to kill a drive and you better be in the fairway. Right pin is really tough, right behind a deep front right bunker.

#2 435 yd. Par 4 Sharp dogleg left with a bunker on the inside of the turn. Second shot is slightly uphill with two deep bunkers front left.

#3 636 yd. Par 5 Might be the toughest par 5 I have played anywhere. The tee shot needs to be played as close to the bunkers on the left to set up the best angle. The second shot might be the most difficult as the fairway slopes severely down & left to right at the ideal landing area. So you can lay up from 140 to 160 or try to hit it all the way to the bottom where you will be closer but will only see the top of the flag on the elevated green.

I think the opening three at Hazeltine are easier than what comes later. 1 is significantly downhill. 2 seems to play shorter than its yardage and 3 is reachable in regulation with a mid to short iron as long as you keep your 2nd left. By comparison, I struggle to get it somewhere near the green on many of the other holes in regulation.

« **Reply #42 on:** November 01, 2008, 02:14:10 AM »

Quote from: Tiger_Bernhardt on October 31, 2008, 07:50:02 PM

I too think Olympic lake has a tremendous start with 2 3 4 5 and 6. 1 is not there but after that the course grabs you sobers you up and then starts kicking you hard. If you are under par going into 7 then your day could be one for the ages.

I bet you are almost always right about this. But Arnie's fatal mistake in 1966 (one of them) was to believe that was true.

« **Reply #43 on:** November 01, 2008, 03:03:31 AM »

Quote from: Tiger_Bernhardt on October 31, 2008, 09:00:27 PM

Kyle head or crossing which is strongest at the green. It still is a fairly easy par 5 that is driver iron or rescue and wedge. Actually the hard shot is the 3rd one where the wind is deceptive and the fairway traps create optical illusion. I have seen many good drive and lay up end in bogie.

Yeah, wind or no wind it's easy peasy.

I hit crappy drive, 4 iron, wedge pin high, missed birdie last time I was there.

« **Reply #44 on:** November 01, 2008, 08:21:12 AM »

Crystal Downs 1 2 3 often sounds double bogey-bogey-bogey

« **Reply #45 on:** November 01, 2008, 09:04:08 AM »

Huck:

WF/W wins easily over any combo named thus far.

The course has been tested in major play against the finest players and they have struggled big time with that opening trio.

In regards to Pasa -- let's not forget the 1st is downhill considerably and this allows for a shorter second. I'm not talking against the like of Harry Handicap mind you -- but against the top players.

WF/W also has superior green designs to just about any course named thus far -- of course, one can mention Oakmont and a few others but the tee shot demands at WF/W are tough -- very tough. The 1st hole there looks benign - until you leave the green with DB or more made.

I think Pasa is a fine candidate for mention -- ditto a few others, but WF/W has a trio -- frankly a quartet -- that give you little quarter to the slightest of errors.

« **Reply #46 on:** November 01, 2008, 11:41:42 AM »

Matt:

Fair enough. Pasa #1 is downhill, yes, but it's also darn tight even still. Keep it between the trees and yes it can be had by the better player. But that's a large if... I don't recall #1 WF-W being all that tight.

As for the greens, hmmmm... both sets are pretty brutal. Can't give an advantage either way.

In any case I can live with WF-W winning this. But it has to be pretty darn close. Especially now with the new back tee on 3 Pasa.

TH

« **Reply #47 on:** November 01, 2008, 12:19:17 PM »

I must just be really lucky everytime ... because I know I'm not very good, but I don't find the 1st at Pasa to be very difficult.

The 2nd and 3rd ... definitely.

Watch ... next time I play it I'll get my teeth kicked in on the 1st.

My resume being somewhat thin when compared to everyone else on this board ... I'm probably going to offer something no one has bothered with: Real Del Mar just south of the border.

Not much GCA wise, but just about zero room for error on the starting stretch.

Stateside, I don't think I'd have a good answer ... yet.

What about Cape Kidnappers in NZ? Can anyone speak about the opening stretch there? The aerials look scary for some of the ocean vista holes.

« **Reply #48 on:** November 01, 2008, 12:24:03 PM »

Chicago Golf Club is an excellent call. It starts with a bruising 440 yard hole, then throws the Road hole and the Biarritz at you, which were nearly always later in the round at other Macdonald courses.

I'm not sure the three holes overall are harder than Winged Foot West or Oakmont's, but relative to the rest of the course, it is certainly the toughest stretch.

Cape Kidnappers' start is not all that hard. I used to think the finish was hard there, until the other day!

« **Reply #49 on:** November 01, 2008, 12:25:35 PM »

Quote from: Patrick Kiser on November 01, 2008, 12:19:17 PM

I must just be really lucky everytime ... because I know I'm not very good, but I don't find the 1st at Pasa to be very difficult.

Patrick: do you routinely make fours? I've probably played the course 50 times, and I can count the number of 4s on one hand... and that includes at least 10 rounds in its most recent (and certainly easiest) form. I'm a 4.5 index. I make way way way more 4s on #2.

As for its difficulty, I guess it depends on how one looks at it. If you look at it such that 5 is a good score (as one really should) then perhaps it's not.

What kinda scores do you achieve there?

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