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George Pazin

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Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2008, 02:05:59 PM »
Quote from: Peter Zarlengo on October 29, 2008, 07:00:27 PM
Now that the cat is out of the bag I guess I can talk....

While working as an intern with Renaissance Golf Design this summer I had the opportunity to do a routing for the site and spend a couple of days in New Mexico with Jim Urbina, Eddie Peck, and Pat Brockwell (who I hope can chime in on here for more info). It was an incredible chance that I am still very grateful of. There are some really good holes out there, in my opinion.

I don't want to say any more or post any of the pictures I took out of respect for what Eddie and RGD are doing there. If I get the green light to describe the property in detail, my experience there, or post any photos I will do so, but for now I'll stay out of the way and let everyone enjoy and speculate on what should be an exciting new development.




Thanks for sharing this; it's always been my opinion that tidbits like this really add that special something to this site.

Jay -

Thanks for the additional photos, I think I prefer the look in brown.

Matt -

Whatever.
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Matt_Ward

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2008, 03:07:58 PM »
Brad F:

Well said in your comments.

Now the naysayers or those living in the dark clouds will finally see what Black Mesa has always been about.

Jerry K:

Well said as well. I don't believe you will see the green fee structure rise to the level of what is happening now at Bandon. Bandon has abandoned its original push for the core golfer by jumping the rates for the core golfer with deep pockets.


Adam:

The original back tee at #16 worked very well and my only point in mentioning it was to see that it be retained. I have no idea on what you are talking about, "poor routing decision and analysis."

I simply opined that I am excited to see Black Mesa make even more progress -- it's just a pity so many people don't realize just how good the original 18 is now.
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jkinney

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Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2008, 04:50:42 PM »
Congrats to Eddie Peck for getting Tom Doak on board. I suspect that the terrain and design differences between the Spann & Doak courses will  be both striking and marvelous. The only aspect that I rue, though it's clearly necessary for long term economic success, is the inclusion of a hotel, which I think will go in south of the clubhouse and west of 18 fairway (Spann).

Black Mesa is an absolute joy as is. With another great course, it'll be off the charts fun !!
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Jay Flemma

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2008, 05:04:38 PM »
You know what would be off the hook fun?  Playing the course on horseback.  There are horses and guides you can take to do that.

Next spring, that's exactly what I'm doing one day.
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Pat Brockwell

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2008, 05:36:20 PM »
First, I think those last pics were from the Rawls Course, not BM.  Matt's reference to the 16th tee (back) has to do with grub damage.  We'll get the turf back up there.  Yes, we're looking to the south from the 13th tee for the next 18, but from there more than half of the new routing is out of sight, over the next ridge.  We're excited about the prospects, and will stay in touch with the treehouse.  Brad, sorry, but I don't share your dissapointment.  For now, we're just suffering through what seems to be an endless string of perfect days.  I'm glad I'm a recreational professional and know how to handle having fun every single day, without letup.  I will say that walking in the wilderness with TD, studying routing, was a highlight.  I think I can do it now. ;D
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2008, 05:44:31 PM »
Congratulations, Pat.  You fellows will have a wonderful place there once the second course is finished.  I think it's terrific now and will compete with Bandon for GCA afficianados.  This is great news for Black Mesa and golf in New Mexico.
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Pat Brockwell

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2008, 09:33:31 PM »
Jay, Horseback golf? I think the bowlegged stance is going to throw off your downswing plane.
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Brad Fleischer

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Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2008, 02:49:36 AM »
Quote from: Pat Brockwell on October 30, 2008, 05:36:20 PM
.  Brad, sorry, but I don't share your dissapointment.  For now, we're just suffering through what seems to be an endless string of perfect days.  I'm glad I'm a recreational professional and know how to handle having fun every single day, without letup.  I will say that walking in the wilderness with TD, studying routing, was a highlight.  I think I can do it now. ;D

Pat,
hmmmm are you rubbing in the fact that you have had an endless string of perfect days ? If that's the case than thanks for rubbing it in. If it's not than I'm not sure I understand, I mean you do like your status as recreational professional don't you. Let's say we have this conversation a year or two after opening when you are packed to the nines with no tee times in site and six hour rounds!!!  Than we shall see!!!  lol lol sorry I can get carried away  ;D

I will let you slide on the walk in the woods , I just hope you were not holding hands the entire time......

Jay,

Isn't that called polo? ha ha   However I would be up for that !!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 01:26:43 PM by Brad Fleischer »
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Don_Mahaffey

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2008, 08:18:03 AM »
Pat,
Do you guys have a time table...constuction start...opening date???
I think you could get some very competitive bids on just about everything right now, great time to build a course if you've got the money.
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Matt MacIver

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Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2008, 08:22:10 AM »
Congrats on getting another course on the map, in this difficult market that's no small feat.  Can't wait to hear how it will be the same, and different, than the original.  

BM is a favorite and with only one play is near the top of my list of courses I want to play again.  So many angles and running slopes.  I scheduled an entire Santa Fe vacation in order to see BM and what all the fuss was about -- glad I did.  Doesn't constitute a hidden gem on this site but still does to the general golf public.  

My only critical comment...I forgot to buy a bag towel and the website doesn't sell 'em!
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Jay Flemma

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2008, 05:28:33 PM »
Matt, just call the course.  I'm sure they can arrange something.
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Matt_Ward

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2008, 05:30:11 PM »
Matt M:

You are so right -- much of the public doesn't really know anything about BM -- the second course can help change that.
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Pat Brockwell

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2008, 07:37:41 PM »
Jay, and Treehouse dog lovers, Yardley is still with us.  Sadly Roscoe P. Frecklebelly, has gone to heaven, where all dogs go.  There is a new addition to Eddie's foursome, Stogie.  He is a Jack Russell Terrier from Ireland who bears an uncanny resemblance to Roscoe.  He's a good boy!  The timeline is dependent on financing, contact Eddie, serious inquiries only please.
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Steve Lang

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Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2008, 09:22:20 AM »
 8)  Will all putts break towards the Black Mesa in the distance?

It will be interesting to see how those lower lands take to golf development when the design storm actually returns.. and the washes and dry creek paths are awash with those fine soils..

The GCA.COM Land of Enchantment Tour II.. can't wait.. we're heading out soon..
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 07:26:24 PM by Steve Lang »
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Andy Troeger

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2008, 10:06:33 AM »
Between this development and some of the new stuff in Ruidoso that opened this year (that I haven't seen yet) its exciting that development is continuing in New Mexico. If Black Mesa is successful in becoming a destination it may attract future development to the area--there are many beautiful areas in the state that could end up having some special courses.
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Criss Titschinger

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Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #65 on: October 12, 2010, 01:05:19 PM »
I'll be in Albuquerque in a few weeks and plan on playing Black Mesa if the weather cooperates. Any updates with the new course?
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2010, 01:14:30 PM »
Quote from: Criss Titschinger on October 12, 2010, 01:05:19 PM
I'll be in Albuquerque in a few weeks and plan on playing Black Mesa if the weather cooperates. Any updates with the new course?

If you get any updates while there, please let us know!

I'm suspecting the economy might be a factor.........
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Thomas Patterson

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2010, 01:24:47 PM »
I'm glad someone bumped this thread as I had thought about this 2nd course recently and wondered if it had stalled out.  I really enjoyed my one time at BM and the landscape that was mentioned to be used for Tom's new course looked fantastic....
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Steve Lang

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Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2010, 01:30:24 PM »
 8) We were there in April and i don't remember even a hint about the 2nd 18's status and we talked a bit with the pro..  you won't be disappointed to play 18-36 there if you can..

p.s. when in ABQ, check out El Pinto restaurant on 4th St NW
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Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Jim Franklin

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Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2010, 01:31:06 PM »
I just played BM for the first time a couple of weeks ago and loved it. Thank you Matt and Andy for convincing me to come and play. I did not see any progress on course #2, but would fly back in a heart beat if it ever comes to fruition.
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Mr Hurricane

Adam Clayman

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Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2010, 09:01:38 PM »
The new course was two weeks from beginning construction when the money dried up. That was probably a few years back.

So, the project is on hold, for now, until the money is flowing again.

I did get one great story about the process...

 Tom was walking around and apparently was not happy about one aspect. Something to do with a hole's fairway being too close to an arroyo and how the water wanted to go there. It was his last day on site and cramped for time, but he was still not happy, trying to figure a better way, while others were re-assuring him it was OK. One of the witnesses could sense that some magic was about to happen. Sure enough, Tom, took the routing and somehow twisted it around, into a figure 8, removing the issue with the arroyo, while simultaneously creating the most beautiful hole on the course. And, (as if that's not enough) improving six other holes in the process.

I just heard that story the other day. Names were withheld to protect the innocent.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Thomas Patterson

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2010, 09:05:40 PM »
Thanks for sharing that Adam - I can only imagine the knowledge one would gain spending a day with Tom D looking over potential landscapes, routings, holes.

I hope the money starts flowing again...would love to see what he can create out of that amazing NM desert landscape!
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Matt_Ward

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2010, 09:46:44 PM »
Jim F:

Glad to hear your comments.

Gents:

Black Mesa can be what Bandon has turned out to be.

The reality is that too many people are not aware of the qualities of Black Mesa or even Santa Fe for that matter.

The second course, assuming it comes someday, can change that perception in less than a NY minute and likely shed even more attention and acclaim to the Baxter Spann design.
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Criss Titschinger

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Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2010, 10:53:29 AM »
I really appreciate the comments from everyone. I did a few Google searches before posting and couldn't find a single mention other than the original announcement. I'll ask if there's any new news when I'm down there. And of course I'll take some pictures as well  :)
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Matt_Ward

Re: Doak to design new couse at Black Mesa
« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2010, 11:02:18 AM »
Criss:

The planned site is to the immediate far right of the 12th and 13th holes - sort of sits in a bowl and is quite different than what the original 18 is.

Like I said, the 2nd course will likely be the catalyst in really elevating the many qualities the facility has. The original course at Black Mesa is simply a gem of first rate quality. The 2nd course will likely cause more people to refocus on what it does provide.
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