Which will be more painful

[Dave_Miller]

Willie Dow:

Just saw your message of June 15.  Sent you my email.  Get in touch if you would like to stay and play The River on Fri.
Cheers,
Dave

[Brian Phillips]

David,

I am presuming that 4000 people turned up to watch on a TV screen which is pretty damn good if you ask me.  Approximately 40 000 turned up for the match in Asia at the stadium.

I don't think that is a joke.

Brian

Best sport in the world!!

[David Wigler]

Brian,

40,000 people showing up in Asia is my point.  Soccer matters in the rest of the world.  4,000 people showing up to watch TV is irrelevant in the American sports culture.  20,000 people showed up at Joe Louis Arena to watch TV during every single one of Detroit's hockey team road playoff games.  Heck, the Pistons (Detroit's basketball team) had over 10,000 people show up to watch TV during a playoff run where everyone knew they would eventually lose.  For perspective, the Pistons are generally viewed as Detroit's 6th most important team (U of M Football, Red Wings, Lions, MSU Basketball, MSU Football, Pistons).  We have bars in Detroit that will seat more than a couple thousand for major sporting events.  I was serious about Lebron James.  The same state that had 4,000 people show up to watch TV, had 18,000 show up to watch a high school basketball game.

Go Germany!!

[Paul Turner]

4000 people at about 4:30 AM!  If it was at 4:30 PM I think the figure would be somewhat different!

[David Wigler]

Paul,

Back in my single days, I was at a bar at 4:30am on St. Patricks Day in Royal Oak with over 4,000 people in line to get in and see an irrelevant band and drink green beer.  The Red Wings would have drawn over 20,000 people regardless of time.  MSU put 55,000 people in an outdoor football stadium with horrible sightlines in the freezing cold to watch an Ice Hockey game.  4,000 is irrelevant.

[SPDB]

SPDB,

Your are not the first person to wish someone would kick my butt and probably won't be the last.  

The analogy to the US team in 1980 does not work.  No one was shoving that team down our throats.  In fact, the game was shown on tape delay.  I remember not watching TV or listening to the radio the entire day so my father and I could enjoy the game.  With five minutes left to go in the game, ABC in Detroit broke for a commercial promo of their upcoming newscast and Bill Bonds said "... and the reaction from fans after the shocking US victory over the Russians."  I wanted to kick Bill Bonds butt.  It is the same reason I hate the WNBA.  It is bad basketball played poorly but is shoved down our throats and put on national TV as though it matters.  Read ESPN's talking heads quote.  My G-D, 4,000 people validate soccer.  In that case, monster truck rallies are bigger than the World Cup.  I want the US to lose, so Soccer can stop being forced down our throats.  If Soccer ever does catch on in the US, then give it the lead on Sportscenter, covers of ESPN The Magazine, etc.  Right now, Bass Fishing outdraws it.  To suddenly care would be disingenuous on my part.

David,
The analogy does stand up. Think for a minute, if you will, to what the state of sport coverage was in 1980 versus what it is today. It's not just soccer that is, as you describe it - "being forced down our throats," but sports in general are. On my cable system I have no fewer than 8 channels that are dedicated to sports coverage - including, I might add, THE GOLF CHANNEL. All things being equal, rest assured that the success of the 1980 hockey team would have been jammed down our throats in a way that would make the current coverage of the World Cup look like a weekly check in on the Global Bocce Championship.

However, that doesn't change the central message to my comparison, that people rooted for the 1980 US hockey simply because they were representing America and they showed a lot of heart. Employing the same logic, shouldn't you just put aside your misgivings about soccer and root for the US to win, in the same way that those who thought hockey was a ridiculous sport but pulled for the US team in 1980?

This media barrage you claim is a state of mind born out of your dislike for soccer. i noted that only yesterday on espn.com, did the "world cup" category on the left hand side of the page move up above the WNBA, to give you an idea of how it is being prioritized among the sports media who you claim are forcing it down your throat.

at any rate, this whole media force feeding will be over in 10 days time. the whole event will have taken less than one month, or, for comparison's sake - 1 month less than the stanley cup playoffs (and don't get me started on the out of control 2-2.5 month carnival that is the stanley cup playoffs), can't you just put aside your stubborness and pull for the american's rather than the germans? i know you have it in you.

[Paul Turner]

David

I think you would be hard pressed to find another sporting event on the other side of the planet drawing 4000 people to watch a TV game at 4am.

I don't recall the US BASEBALL team drawing any such interest for the Sydney Olympics, when they beat Cuba in the final.

I believe there is considerably more interest in the World Cup here in the US than you realise, my bet is that the TV ratings are very respectable given the time difference.  

And I doubt the TV rights came cheap; so it's being "shoved down your throat" for good reason.

[Dickie Wrist]

As a point of pedantry, the USA are clearly not one of the top 16 countries in the world at football.  This has been a very strange championship with a lot of the better teams (France, Portugal and Argentina) going out.  It's also interesting that a lot of the leading worldwide club teams would probably convincingly beat most of the national sides.

I an completely in favour of the US being ejected from the competiton, if we can't play in your 'World Series' , I don't see why you should play in the rest of the world's 'World Cup'.  Particularly as you seem to find the whole thing such a yawn......

In terms of the most skillful sport I would venture Cricket.  They are not at all fit in comparison to most other sports (although they are fitter than they used to be), but the level of hand-eye co-oridnation and skill needed to be a good all rounder is at the highest level.  Shame that it's so bloody boring, but you can't have everything.

Dickie

[Go USA!]

As a point of pedantry, the USA are clearly not one of the top 16 countries in the world at football
Dickie

No Dickie, we're not.  We're one of the top EIGHT.

Scoreboard!

[SPDB]

As a point of pedantry, the USA are clearly not one of the top 16 countries in the world at football

As a point of clarification, in the most recent FIFA world rankings, the USA is 13, so it would seem your point, Dickie, is nullified.

[A_Clay_Man]

Shivas, You have thrown down the Gauntlet. Your post is so inflamatory and full of a complete lack of understanding, awareness and sensitivity.  I find it hard to believe your a golfer.   Lawyer, yes.  

Anytime, anywhere. Bring it on

[Will W]

adam,

i wouldn't get to worked up about shivas.  he's setting up strawmen throughout his argument.

"one world left leaning media" come on, does that included one world corporate global entities such as adidas, nike, budweiser, honda, toyota, and various other corporate sponsors who make the world cup possible?

[dickie wrist]

SPDB wrote:

As a point of clarification, in the most recent FIFA world rankings, the USA is 13, so it would seem your point, Dickie, is nullified.

Chris DeMarco is ranked number 12 golfer in the world, do you really believe rankings?  I thought that by and large this group of people went by more qualitative measure such as aesthetics, grace and flow - none of which can be said to apply to the US team :-)

[Go USA!]

SPDB wrote:

As a point of clarification, in the most recent FIFA world rankings, the USA is 13, so it would seem your point, Dickie, is nullified.

Chris DeMarco is ranked number 12 golfer in the world, do you really believe rankings?  I thought that by and large this group of people went by more qualitative measure such as aesthetics, grace and flow - none of which can be said to apply to the US team :-)

Huh.  Interesting.  France, Argentina, Mexico, Portugal, Italy all are at home agreeing with you, with plenty of time to practice their wonderful aesthetics, grace and flow.  I suppose we should award style points in these games?  Are you a figure skating fan also, Dickie?

USA - FIFA World Cup quarterfinalist.  Live with it.  After all these years we're on the road to dominate the one sport we don't already.

USA USA USA USA USA

[David Wigler]

Now I am both confused and pissed.  

I still hate soccer and have no intention of watching a single second of the world cup (And not to get off on a rant here) but damnit Dickie this is not figure skating.  "Aesthetics, grace and flow - ?  Are you French?  "Well our army got our Asses kicked by Lithuania (Or some other country with an army of six soldiers and a goat) but our uniforms looked nicer."  Team sports are about winning and losing.  Well were at it, the French should be banned from ever criticizing the US until they repay their war debt.  French cuisine would be bratwurst if it was not for the US.  I really feel my jingoistic tendencies kicking in.  Britain - your just pissed because we took your sport Cricket and improved it into Baseball (Which now the world plays); took your sport Rugby and improved it into Football (Which now the whole world plays) and took your sport golf and got so much better at it than you that you needed to add the rest of Europe or the Ryder Cup would become irrelevant.  

Screw the Germans - USA! USA! USA! - Just do not make me watch.  

[Will W]

this discussion/thread just cracks me up

david - just watch "black hawk down" before the game, and you'll be pumped enough to chant "ole, ole, ole, ole" through the whole game!

[Brian Phillips]

David,

Now you are into it!!  See soccer got you going at last!!

See you guys in the final!!  Hope you do everyone a favour and knock the smug smiles of the Germans off their faces!!

No seriously, why are we bothering, none of us should critisise any other sport as all sport is a positive thing in life.  Sport is one of the only positive things that brings a country together.

USA really does have a chance of reaching the final now.

Sit back and enjoy the ride David!!


I just hope we can squeeze by Brazil.

Brian

[Will W]

brian-

brazil have hardly shined so far (with big gaps in the back; including one behind roberto carlos whenever he goes upfield).  i rate england's chances as pretty good.

good luck!

will wang

[Paul Turner]

David

Baseball and your Football world sports?? What a joke, what world are you living in?  Our beloved Cricket and Rugby are FAR more widely played.  

And you should know by now that all the best sports have been invented by us Brits    Golf, Football, Rugby, Tennis, Cricket

[David Wigler]

Paul,

You left Polo off your list  .  

I assume you are joking about Cricket being more widely played then Baseball.  It is not even close.  Once you factor in Latin America and the Far East, Baseball is the most widely played game in the world (And almost as boring to watch as Soccer).  As for Rugby vs. Football, I assume Football is more widely played.  It is certainly more widely viewed.  The Super Bowl is the most watched TV program in the world.  I have no idea what the Rugby championship is even called.  As for Golf, you will have to take that claim up with the ancient Egyptians.

[Paul Turner]

David

I certainly wasn't joking about Cricket vs Baseball:

The following countries have have professional touring (test match) sides, and in each country it has a HUGE following :

India, Pakistan, England, Australia, New Zealand, West Indies. South Africa, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanker.

I'm sure  these account for rather more of the world's population than those nations that supposedly play Baseball.  I admit my ignorance here, as I can only think of Japan, Cuba and Dominican Replublic, Puerto Rico as avid Baseball followers(but national touring team, why not?).

To say it's more widely played than Soccer is patently ludicrous.  Ever been to Africa?  Or is it too French for ya?

Why is there no world cup of Baseball?  Cricket certainly has one, but then again I doubt you ever noticed  

Rugby is much more widely played than American football.  which only has a tiny following in Europe: about as large as the Rubgy following in the US.

[Dave_Miller]

Paul Turner:

You forgot Mexico, Senor.

[David Wigler]

Paul,

I'll grant that Soccer is more widely played than either cricket or baseball but I am certain you are wrong on Cricket vs. Baseball.  There is a world cup of Baseball, it is played in Williamsport Va. and is called the Little League World Series.  I believe Britain had a team that tried to qualify.  

For that matter, so did Albania, Holland, Pakistan, Angola, Ireland, Poland, Armenia, Israel, Qatar, Austria, Italy, Romania, Bahrain, Jordan, Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Saudi Arabia, Belgium, Kenya, Scotland, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Kuwait, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Latvia, South Africa, Burkina Faso, Lithuania, Spain, Cameroon, Lesotho, Sweden, Croatia, Luxembourg, Togo, Czech Republic, Macedonia, Turkey, Mali, Ukraine, Georgia, Malta, United Arab Emirates, Germany, Moldova, Uzbekistan, Ghana, Nigeria, Zambia, Greece, Norway, Zimbabwe, Canada, American Samoa, Japan, Papua, New Guinea, Australia, Korea, Palau, Republic of
Fiji, Malaysia, People's Republic of China, Guam, Micronesia, Philippines, Hong Kong, New Caledonia, Sri Lanka, India, New Zealand, Thailand, Indonesia, Northern Mariana Islands,
Antigua, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Argentina, Cuba, Panama,
Aruba, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Bahamas, Ecuador, St. Vincent & Grenadines, Belize, El Salvador, Trinidad & Tobago, Bermuda, Guatemala, Uruguay, Bolivia, Guyana, U.S. Virgin Islands, Brazil, Honduras, Venezuela, British Virgin Islands, Jamaica, Chile, Mexico, Colombia, and the Netherlands Antilles  

Japan and Taiwan are both powerhouses although the Taiwanese have been suspended lately for cheating.  In all it totals about 100 countries have regional tournaments to send a team to area qualifiers.  The total number of competitors is  close to 3,000,000 - all trying for one trophy.  That number blows away the number of competitors for Cricket (Or the World Cup).  

[Dave_Miller]

Shivas:
College Football on a Fall Saturday is great but the only reason for Fall Saturdays.
Obviously you ain't never played "The River"  on a crisp, clear Fall New England Saturday.

Best
Dave

[Paul Turner]

David

That's very interesting I didn't know that, but very few of those countries play baseball (which really I like: my favourite of the US sports) seriously.  You just don't see kids playing baseball in Ireland, Holland South Africa, Thailand, Indonesia...  They can put a team together, but then again, I'm sure there's a US Cricket team somewhere!

The Cricket playing countries (five continents!) I list are where the sport is huge (old British Empire etc.)
I'm sure practically all countries you've listed could field a cricket team too, and even more with old colonial ties.

When Baseball has a true international schedule and a World Cup, I'll take your claim more seriously

By the way, for those who dislike the lack of scoring in soccer; try Cricket, you can have scores above 500 in that sport