Prairie Dunes Greens - Some of the best ever?

[Chip Gaskins]

After having some time to reflect on Prairie Dunes I am amazed on how great the greens were.

The internal contours were absolutely fantastic. 

They were the perfect mix of testing but yet very fun.  You never worried about putting the ball of the green, however you were always cognizant of letting one get away. 


#17 from behind


#8 from behind


#1 from the right side.
The approaches were firm and fringes were perfectly maintained to allow just enough in the way of recovery options to drive the player mad.



#3 green


Do we know if Press reshaped any of Perry's original green contours?

[Sean Leary]

My three favorite greens are 1,8, and 17, which you have shown, not surprisingly, although pics don't do them justice. All three are Perry's of course.  Favorite Press greens are 3 and 12...I have never heard that Press touched his dad's greens, but maybe Chris Clouser would know.

Haven't played Crystal Downs yet, but I am really excited to see those greens as well...

[Chris_Clouser]

Chip,

Press never touched any of the greens.  He moved some tee boxes when he was there in the mid-50s, but otherwise left his father's work alone.

[Sean Leary]

Chris,

Who is responsible for the tee on 12 on top of the dune. I played it from the original tee on my last trip for the first time and I liked it better.

[Anthony Fowler]

Certainly the best I have played.  Maybe the best in the world?

Sean, your post made me think of the greens I like best.  I started thinking about how much I like those three and then I thought about how much I like 2, 3, . . .

I would add 2 & 6 as two of my favorite greens and holes overall.

[Mark Arata]

I second the 6th, might be my favorite hole on the course.......also the green on 11 is amazing. There really isnt a weak hole on the property. 

[Chris_Clouser]

Sean,

Doug Petersan.  I believe there is a lot of detail in the write-up in the courses by country section about Prairie Dunes. 

[Craig Van Egmond]

They are certainly some of my favorite greens.

One of my favorite places.

[John Mayhugh]

Holes 2 & 6 were probably my favorites as well.

The advice I would give to someone playing Prairie Dunes for the first time is to look at every putt from every angle. The first or second look is often deceiving.   There are no easy putts out there.

[Chip Gaskins]

A few more pics that folks mentioned: 2, 6, 12 and another great one of 17

#2


#6


#12


#17

[TEPaul]

Chip:

I agree with you that those Prairie Dunes greens sure are some of the best I've ever seen. Much of it is those internal contours but what impressed me most about some of them is the various angles of some of the sides and such, including how they can shed shots not particularly well conceived.

[tlavin]

The greens at Prairie Dunes are beyond inspired.  It is amazing to me that somebody had the vision to build that place 70 years ago (the first nine, anyway) and it is even more amazing that they had the vision to build greens that are so utterly beguiling.  Some would argue that the internal contouring is too omnipresent and too severe.  I've heard knowledgeable people opine that the greens are just too difficult at today's speed.  I've heard the same thing said about Lost Dunes, an early glimpse into the inspired work of Tom Doak.  I'm sure there's some truth to these positions, but I absolutely love the greens at Prairie Dunes and I think that the greens at Lost Dunes are its architectural progeny.

[corey miller]

Terry

Have any of these knowlegable people you cite played the greens at PD when they were too fast or speedy for the contours?  Or are people commenting that they would be too severe if kept at the typical open/country club green speeds.

I ask because I have played upwards of 20 rounds at PD under various conditions and I would not consider the contour/speed a problem.

Or is it just a matter of most people prefer "fast" and then are disheartened that PD does not have them playing at "open speed"?

[TEPaul]

I played Prairie Dunes maybe 2-3 times in the summer of '06 and the green speed was fun but just fine. I can't remember now exactly but I'd say they were probably around 10 on the stimpmeter. With some of the downhill putts and chips you had to be pretty careful but it was all doable.

I putted around on a bunch of Winged Foot's greens yesterday and they may've been a couple of feet faster than that and it was a real challenge but the imagination level was just off the charts and I really like that because at those speeds it isn't just about putting but very much also chipping and pitching and full shot approaching. Yesterday those Winged Foot greens were working on all sixteen cylinders, and most all of them are just flat-ass amazing greens.

[Chip Gaskins]

When I played a few months ago the greens were probably around 10 or 11.  As Tom said, just fast enough to be careful but not "Open Speed".  At those speeds the internal contours made for a very very fun day.  The surrounds were fun and chip shots were a blast.  The greens themselves are probably the best I have played.

[Craig Van Egmond]

PD seems to do a really good job of maintaining the greens at the proper speed. In the 3 or 4 times I have been there, they never seemed too fast.  With those contours it could get ugly fast.

[Nick Cauley]

This was the first season with A4 bent and I agree the greens were at a great speed and a lot of fun to putt.

[Patrick Kiser]

Chip,

You do get around 

That said ... I see we're raving about the greens, but I remember from Mal Elliott's book that the routing was most pleasing as well.

Back to the greens ... when I look at these pics and in particular no.3, what I see is a glassy lake surface in the morning or the glassy ocean at dawn before heading for a surf or a lying blanket or sheet settling onto a bed.  Just lovely and seemingly natural contours.

I wonder where Perry drew his inspiration for shaping these.  The dunes?

[Joel_Stewart]

Reviving this old thread.


I played Prairie Dunes twice last week. I had played it 25 years ago and forgot how incredible the greens are. They have to be in any discussion about the most complicated greens in America. I noticed the same thing at other Maxwell courses, Old Town, Southern Hills, Crystal Downs and the greens he worked on at Augusta.   


They still have problems with the rough lines, Bill Coore feels that the angles of attack are still limited due to the rough.