[mark chalfant]

So  many good courses in southeast  PA.  Has anyone played  here at North Hills  I was very impressed by  the Meehan holes  at LuLu.  What are some  of his best layouts  ?


Thanks

[wsmorrison]

Mark,

Here is a drawing showing the changes Flynn and Wilson were consulting on at North Hills

Holes 4,5 and 6

[Bradley Anderson]

Interesting that the trees on this drawing are perfectly parallel, indicative of a fenceline having formerly  transected the property, prior to it's being a golf course.

The plan might have included them for points of reference. Or, their being included might reflect the architect's sympathy towards trees in general?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The course is noted for the 600+y par5 4th hole and the short sharp dogleg right 18th hole at 345y:

www.nhccgolf.org/nhccgolfcourse2006.html

A fun course to play and always in good condition.

[JESII]

Steve,

The fourth is actually a par 8...I've even made a couple of birdies on it...



Wayne,

That drawing is really cool...I love the idea of shared fairways and really wish clubs could figure out a way to utilize the idea more in today's litigous world...

[Mike_Cirba]

Wayne,

Who drew that?

It's really gorgeous and really unusual.   

[Joe Bausch]

I'm not going to shoot down Meehan's design contribution at North Hills like I did a few weeks back with Ashbourne (a Willie Park, Jr design), but I do want to suggest a modification.  I have a late 1924 review of North Hills by J.E. Ford that says the first nine at NH was designed by Meehan, William Ridgeway, and Frank J. Sheble.  I don't have the exact date in front of me when the first nine opened, but it was not long after 1907, I think.

In 1914 ground sufficient for a second nine holes was leased and construction started.  Alan P. Corson (chief engineer of the commissioners of the Fairmount Park) was chairman of the greens committee and together with Hugh Wilson, Frank Meehan, and A. H. "Ab" Smith "laid out the new course and supervised its construction" according to Ford's article.

[Paul Carey]

Which holes did he do at LuLu?

[Kyle Harris]

Which holes did he do at LuLu?

The original 9 hole course which was exclusively on the southern side of Limekiln Pike. Several of the holes remain (I think the stretch from 2-7, but I'm not sure), Joe Bausch posted a routing he discovered several months ago.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm not going to shoot down Meehan's design contribution at North Hills like I did a few weeks back with Ashbourne (a Willie Park, Jr design), but I do want to suggest a modification.  I have a late 1924 review of North Hills by J.E. Ford that says the first nine at NH was designed by Meehan, William Ridgeway, and Frank J. Sheble.  I don't have the exact date in front of me when the first nine opened, but it was not long after 1907, I think.

In 1914 ground sufficient for a second nine holes was leased and construction started.  Alan P. Corson (chief engineer of the commissioners of the Fairmount Park) was chairman of the greens committee and together with Hugh Wilson, Frank Meehan, and A. H. "Ab" Smith "laid out the new course and supervised its construction" according to Ford's article.

Joe,

That's really wild....my understanding was that the 1907 nine-holer was supplanted by the 1913-14 course at perhaps a different site...I'll have to re-check my notes.

Still and all, the idea that Hugh Wilson and Ab Smith and Frank Meehan were doing courses together as early as that time is simply stunning.

Who knew prior to your research how much work Hugh Wilson had actually done???

Who knew previously how much work Ab Smith had actually done???

Francis Meehan??

Wow...

Wow...great stuff, Joe.

[Mike_Cirba]

Joe,

You also understand exactly what that means as far as Hugh Wilson, the supposed "constructor of Merion East to someone else's plans because he didn't have enough knowledge to have designed that course", don't you?

It means that right after Merion East came into being, Hugh Wilson was called by Robert Lesley to build Merion West, by Clarence Geist to build Seaview, by Ellis Gimbel to wholly revise Philmont (South), by Francis Meehan to design North Hills, and by Robert Lesley and others to design Cobb's Creek!   All of this between 1912 and 1914!   

No wonder the guy resigned from the chairmanship of the Green Committee of Merion in winter 1914!

This from a guy who had a day job running an insurance business with his brother!!!

Yes....I'm sure that all of these captains of United States industry just wanted him because he was able to follow CB Macdonald's plans in building Merion.... 

The one wonderful and positive thing that all of this rancor and division on this site over the Merion wars has generated...mostly due to your great work, Joe...is that Hugh Wilson was actually a much more active and a much more influential architect than anyone had heretofore knew or understood.

Bravo, Joe

[Joe Bausch]

Which holes did he do at LuLu?

The original 9 hole course which was exclusively on the southern side of Limekiln Pike. Several of the holes remain (I think the stretch from 2-7, but I'm not sure), Joe Bausch posted a routing he discovered several months ago.

Here is that earlier Lu Lu thread:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33088.0.html

[Joe Bausch]

Somehow I missed this 1911 article from the Philadelphia Inquirer about the original 9 holes at North Hills.  This is a fun read:

[Joe Bausch]

And this from November of 1912 says the second nine was tested out early, I guess you could call a soft opening.  Funny, this article clearly shows the date given in the J.E. Ford article was not correct.  But more importantly, it could suggest that Hugh Wilson might have been involved with the design of North Hills second nine right around the time Merion East was being built.  Or maybe he came in later, between the soft and formal opening.

[wsmorrison]

Nice work, Joe.  According to Jim Finegan, North Hills contracted Meehan to design and build the 18-hole course  shortly after the 9-hole course proved inadequate for the membership and he was paid $1625 for his labors.

Stenton CC was new to me so I looked it up in Jim Finegan's fine book on Philadelphia golf.  He said that it was founded in 1909 and golf was played on leased ground near Stenton Avenue and Washington Lane in Chestnut Hill.  The land grew valuable and the lease was not extended so the club moved to Cedarbrook Farm and became Cedarbrook CC.

[Dan Boerger]

I have been fortunate enough to play North Hills 10 - 15 times in the past few years. It's a terrific course and one that is often overlooked in the greater Philadelphia area. Holes 3 - 6 are, IMO, the best stretch of holes on the course. Three is a strong, slightly downhill one shotter to a two tiered green with significant slope. Four is one of the most demanding par 5's this side of hell's half acre. A tee and second shot that dares you to play the left hand side for a slight distance advantage, but if you're too far left you're OB or in plain trouble. It narrows as you approach the green and JES' birdie would be like an eagle for most mortals. Five is a straightforward drive to a great green complex. Six is a tight drive to an elevated and well guarded small green.

Some really fine holes on the back nine, 13 and 17 being favorites of mine. 18 has always been a topic of great discussion. It's a short dogleg right to what was an almost impossible green if your approach is the least bit above the pin. It has since been rebuilt and is not quite as penal.

[mark chalfant]

Thank you all for  the great replies about North Hills


Wayne,  the  Flynn sketch  is fascinating. Thanks for sharing  it  !

[Mike_Cirba]

Wayne,

Is that sketch one of Flynn's?

[JESII]

Dan,

Note that my birdies were due to re-writing the hole as a par 8...

[wsmorrison]

I don't believe the sketch is Flynn, but the pencil markings showing indicated revisions and the handwriting are by Flynn.  My guess is that Flynn and Wilson collaborated with the folks at North Hills to improve the golf course.

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