Did RTJ ever design a great short par 3?

[CHrisB]

During my move to TX last week, the rental truck broke down in Alabama, which took a day to fix.  The good news was that the down time allowed me to play golf!  I played at Oxmoor Valley, one of the RTJ Golf Trail courses, which was very enjoyable.  I have played 12 of his courses now, and OV was similar to the others I've played in terms of length--long with pinched-in driving areas, most par 4's in the 420-450 range, and the shortest par 3 at around 175 yards.

Did Robert Trent Jones ever design a truly great short hole?  The only one I've played that would qualify would be #3 at Spyglass Hill, a 152-yard drop shot.  Any others?

(Come to think of it, did he ever design a truly great short par four?)

[Bob_Huntley]

What about the 15th at Spyglass, certainly not a great hole but you would be surprised at the number of bogies there, especially in a competition. Not much more than a sand wedge and at the most, a nine iron.

[Joel_Stewart]

I personally like #3 and especially #5 at Spyglass before #15.  I happen to like #4 and 11 at Peachtree as well.

[Rick Shefchik]

While I'm not sure I'd categorize it as great, number 8 at Hazeltine is a memorable hole. It's 178 yards to a long, narrow green that angles away from front left to back right, with water all along the right side of the green. The green slopes from back left towards the water, and there are greenside bunkers left and long, which means if you bail out away from the water, you'll either be putting downhill or blasting out of a bunker towards the water. The ideal shot flirts with the water and leaves you an uphill putt. If it's windy at the PGA, you'll see a few balls in the water here.

[Rick Shefchik]

Now that I think about it, however, number 8 was redesigned after the 1970 Open (it was one of the many holes the pros said they hated), and I'm not sure if RTJ gets the credit for the current version.

As to the question of great short par 4s, however, Jones does get credit for number 6 at Hazeltine, which is one of my favorite short par 4s -- a 406-yard downhill dogleg left to a green fronted by a pond. The first half of the hole feels quite narrow with tall trees creating a chute effect on either side of the fairway; the pros won't need much more than a 3-iron to get their tee shot far enough around the corner to have an open short iron to the green. The riskier shot would be a well-placed draw with a driver or 3-wood that could follow the contour of the hole most of the way down the hill, leaving a short wedge to the green and taking the water pretty much out of play, unless the pin as all the way on the left side of the green. It's a cool hole.

[Bob_Huntley]

Joel:

I know I hit it like a powder puff, but I still don't think you can say No.5 at Spyglass is a short par three.

[Joel_Stewart]

I misread it.  I'll still keep #4 at Peachtree at 166 from the back and #14 at 179 over water as pretty good.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Bob, 5 is not only a solid par 3 but one of a kind and I love it.

[JohnV]

I played Spyglass during a recent NCGA event from the white tees and #5 was a 9-iron from there.  We all hit the green and took a total of 12 putts between the 4 of us.  I had the only 2-putt.  #3 is also a neat shot.  #4 at Peachtree was also very good.

[A_Clay_Man]

There is no doubt spyglass is in a class by itself when it comes to RTJ. And while I have yet to travel to the land of Po Folks and experience 'the trail'. I have heard nothing that would make want to go there.

Isn't LaGuna Seca an RTJ? and isn't the 17th  a shortish decent enough hole?

[Rob Hallford]

I played the par 3 course at Grand National (part of the trail in Opelika) and I found it to be a lot of fun.  Many times the par 3 courses are an afterthought but this one has 4-5 holes right on the water in prime golf real estate.  Some of the holes are better than the par 3's on the two courses there, and all of them are pretty interesting and fun to play.

I know many on here people poo-poo the Trail, but I think Grand National (both Links and Lake courses) is a treat.  I also enjoyed the courses in Montgomery, although with the wind the Judge played too tough for my liking.  Maybe I've been seduced by the visual "wow" factor, but I think there are highlights on the Trail worth seeing.

indy

[A_Clay_Man]

I have never heard anyone poo poo the trail on this site. I heard it from a friend who visited there and was treated poorly and had little affection for the architecture.

[Rob Hallford]

I have never heard anyone poo poo the trail on this site. I heard it from a friend who visited there and was treated poorly and had little affection for the architecture.

First, I've gotten the general impression that most people on this site aren't impressed with RTJ's body of work with a couple of exceptions (Spyglasss and his course on LI which name escapes me).  Second, every time the Trail comes up I have seen disparaging comments around the quality of courses and it not being worth the time.  I haven't seen any threads specifically started to bash the Trail, but the opinions I have read here are fairly uniformly low.

indy

[guest]

12 and 16 at the old course at the Golden Horseshoe in Williamsburg, VA.

[Scott_Burroughs]

An RTJ short par 4 that is very good is #16 at the Dunes in Myrtle Beach.  #10 ain't bad either.

[ed_getka]

Otter Creek in Indiana has a good short par 3. I don't remember the hole #, but it has a greensite tucked in between a fork in a stream and is the hole I most remember from a decent course.

[Jimbo]

16 at ANGC isn't too shabby.