[Mark_Rowlinson]

....multi-dimensional for the best players?

Taking TOC as an example, I can take any of three or four options on most holes and probably score much the same. But, watching play in the Opens of 2000 and 2005, most competitors took the same route to most holes, apart from the 18th where the options were 1] to try to drive the green or 2] aim for the starter's hut and play an approach across the width of the green. But holes such as the 14th were merely a drive to find the Elysian Fields and an iron approach to the green - no flirting with the adjacent fairway or having to avoid Hell Bunker, and I didn't see anyone drive out of bounds over the wall. Everyone seemed to have a thrash at the 9th with no concern for the gorse lining the left.

[Adam Clayman]

Another scourge of stroke play mentality. One dimensionality is for the better play. Multi's are for those who either want to have fun or take risks in a match.

[Norbert P]

 Multi-dimensionality is more important for the replaying many times, over many years, the same course.  Bandon has the variability, even within each course, for people to travel repeatedly to discover and rediscover its possibilities.

[JESII]

Mark,

Did changing hole locations effect how the guys in the Opens would play the holes?

[Mike Benham]

One dimensionality is for the better play. Multi's are for those who either want to have fun or take risks in a match.

Ironic that the better player is the only golfer capable of successfully playing shots suggested in a multi-dimensional layout ...

[Adam Clayman]

B.S., Mike!

I define better playa as tour quality, or close to a plus.

Plenty of us hacks can be creative and hit different shots of varying traj's. Sometimes even on purpose.

[JESII]

I think the context of "options" when playing a hole means/should mean the placement of the drive and then the placement of the approach...and this seems to be Mark's question.

Adam seems to think of "options" in terms of individual shots when you might hit it high or low of hook it or slice it to get to a certain hole location...which is fine, but at the tour level I would think they would all take a similar approach to a 175 yard shot to a certain pin. I would be interested to hear that players tried different tee shots in order to leave different approach shots to that pin, but their games must be so similar that they don't even do that.

I think all players can, and do, try to tack their way around a course in measured ways to make the next shot easier...using angles...hence my question about TOC with different hole locations. It would be really sad if the Open competitors didn't even change their tee shot strategy when the hole location was 30 yards away from yesterday's, or the wind was 180 degrees different.

[Rich Goodale]

Jim

You ask a very interesting question.  Even though I know the Old Course better than most, and also know that on many of the greens pin position determines the values of what sorts of risks and rewards are available, I find it hard to think of a hole where pin position determines what sort of shot you play off the tee.  I think, rather, that just getting the ball in play without being in a bunker is rule #1, even for the top pros, and then finding a way to the pin is a seperate, serial task.  Maybe this is why I do not rate the Old Course as highly as others, as a test of golf......

Rich

PS--if you even play Adam, do NOT give him any strokes--his card says 11 but he plays like +11 when there is money or pride on the line.

rfg

[JESII]

Well then...I'd be happy to take 5 a side from him...


Wasn't there a story about an old Walker Cup match in which Bobby Jones asked his partner (in foursomes) to play into an adjacent fairway so his approach would be straight into the wind as opposed to quartering?

[Rich Goodale]

Quite possible, but that was only because Bobby was hopeless on quartering wind shots....

To be less frivilous, it is rare to play a quartering wind on the Old Course, and these days the players of Jones' quality (are there any?) would far prefer to hit to a quartering wind from a flat lie than try to get to the green into the wind from a pot bunker.

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