[Mark_Rowlinson]

....sand greens? The sort of things you find in the desert? What were they like to play to and to putt on?

[Ken Moum]

....sand greens? The sort of things you find in the desert? What were they like to play to and to putt on?

Yes. In fact, I believe my first round of golf (nine holes) was played on sand greens in Rolla ND, where the golf course sort of surrounded the local grass-strip airport. That was roughly 50 years ago.

FWIW, I think the golf course was located there because they had a mower.

When I was very young--up to age 7--we lived in Harvey, ND where my dad competed regularly on sand greens at courses in the area.

I think the last time I played sand greens was in a tournament in Murdo, SD about 25-30 years ago.

All of the sand green courses I have played were oiled with used motor oil, which wasn't such a good idea in the first place, and is no longer allowed.

How did they play? VERY, VERY slow. On each green someone had to smooth a path to the hole with a tool that resembles a modern bunker rake without teeth.

The ones stationed at each hole were made of steel pipe, and very heavy, but my dad carried a folding touchup tool made of a golf shaft with a wooden lathe held by a wing nut.

The cup used has a liner to allow you dump out the sand that gets in the hole during this operation. They are still available -- http://standardgolf.com/cups.htm

Once the path was made, everyone would move their ball to the path for putting.

Approaching them was interesting, because if there was enough sand, you could play a pitch that landed and stopped in the sand. But usually, and preferably, the sand wasn't be that deep.

In that last tourney I played, I remember playing with a couple of locals who'd hit shots that ran along the ground on the dry, hard buffalograss "fairway" but when they rolled onto the green would stop quickly.

My first approach shots landed on the green and bounced like they'd hit concrete, as the sand was only about an inch deep over rock-hard South Dakota hardpan.

As I recall the old guys (younger than my current age) beat me like a drum.

Ken

[RJ_Daley]

Mark here is what one course looks like, with sand greens.  It is the Dannebrog CC in Dannebrog NE.  The next hole ( a rather unique design  ) has a sand green contained within the corrigated metal pen.  It is the aerial form of play, with not much opportunity for a run-up shot... 

[Ken Moum]

Mark here is what one course looks like, with sand greens.  It is the Dannebrog CC in Dannebrog NE.  The next hole ( a rather unique design  ) has a sand green contained within the corrigated metal pen.  It is the aerial form of play, with not much opportunity for a run-up shot... 

One important poinit for those who have never played sand greens. You don't putt on the surface as shown here.

Take a close look at the bottom of that photo and just behind the hole, you'll see the evidence of a putting track. You can even see three tracks made by golf balls that were moved for putting.

That  rake he's dragging is used to wipe out foot prints for the next group. Some of the place I have played used something that resembled a drag mat for the purpose.

The other thing is that this is obviously post-environmentalism, as the sand isn't covered in used oil. (I hated what that stuff would do to golf shoes and grips)

Ken

[Bill_McBride]

But Ken, oil is what made the surface playable, right?

I never saw sand greens but my cousin grew up in Cairo, Egypt, where his father was the head of Coca-Cola after WWII.  Tommy learned to play on sand greens.  To this day he is one of the worst putters for a decent player that I've ever known.  He says his golf pals once he was back in the States called him "Motorboat" -- putt putt putt.

[Ken Moum]

But Ken, oil is what made the surface playable, right?

I have never played the ones without oil, but was lead to believe that it mostly helped to keep the sand from blowing away.

I would think that it made the sand easier to groom and less likely to cake after a rainstorm, but that's only a guess.

I remembe talking to a state EPA staffer back in the day when they were making courses stop using oil, and he suggested that vegetable oil might be acceptable, but that it wouldn't last as long without being refreshed.

I can imagine playing a course that had used fry oil.... the place would smell like french fries.

K

[RJ_Daley]

I'm not sure, but the gent in the photo, I think told me that they had some sort of source for cheap vegitable oil that they sprayed periodically.  I think it was to binde the sand particles when they got so dry and would blow away in the slightest wind. 

[Garland Bayley]

I learned on Sand Greens. No excuse for not lining up correctly to the ball as a path to the hole was smoothed as Ken points out in the photo. Kinda like laying a club down for allignment on the range.

There is a good chance I have been on the courses at Harvey and Rolla, ND as I have been in both towns and I used to tag along when my dad played golf. Mostly he played at Velva, ND which is not too far from Harvey. Eventually when I began to play myself, I only remember playing in western ND at Stanley, and perhaps Ray.

The course I learned on in Harlowton, MT definitely needed the oil to keep the sand from blowing away. A prominent feature you see now from the course are wind mills for electricity generation.

[Bob_Huntley]

Mark,

The first time I played on sand greens/browns was at the nine holer on the Nuanetsi Ranch in Matabeleland. I think the ranch was on a couple of hundred thousand acres and the amount of game of all shapes and sizes was abundant.

Ken has described the  method of putting on the surface and I can add nothing extra to his comments except to say that there was nothing tentative about the stroke.



The only other time I played on sand was at the Beit Bridge Golf Course. I have written extensively on that in previous threads here on GCSA.

Bob

[Ron Farris]

Ironically I did some sketches for the grassing of the Murdo Golf Club. On the day I visited the site a lady was bit by a rattler. They wanted 1,000 SF greens to replace the sand greens. They settled for 3K sf greens. I attest the buffalograss fairways are fantastic. However they installed a one row irrigation system, booster pump, grass greens and new cups and flags for nine holes for 150,000K. My input was gratis! I have posted pics of the site on other thrds. As a kid we would make an annual event in Springview NE. The greens were surrounded by 1 ft berms to keep out runup shots.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Mark, when I was in college, I played on Sand Greens at the public course in Jamestown, North Dakota.  I was a mere three miles from the edge of the world. The greens were indeed sand and had a roller that theplayer used prior to his putting.  The greens were also trated with some king o chemical tha discolored them a bit.  Some toxin no doubt.  They didn't have much slope but putted true.

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