Where will the USGA mess up this week?

[Will E]

did anyone check out the pin on 11? heard some pretty harsh complaints from a few blasting the usga on this one and the pin on 10 and 12.
i once saw a member gripe to Rich Spear about a "illegal" pin he set, his comment back as he held up his wrist to be cuffed, "have me arrested".

[BV]

Re: Where will the USGA mess up this week?

By not reigning in the ball.  

[Brad Klein]

Having just spent 4 days on the Black Course I can tell you the set-up is phenomenal, the players were enthusiastic about the split tee times so they get onto the course quicker and finish faster, and that the pros have all been praising the place. So go find a little blemish here and there - of course there are a few. But this is one unbelievable course, and the conditioning is amazing.

And the crowds have had a hoot, too.

[TEPaul]

Brad;

That would certainly be my observation from afar (viewing on TV). Everyone seems to be enthusiatic about the Black--certainly the players seem to be.

As for the pin on #11--if that's the one that Toms degreened--sure it was intense but he knew that--he just didn't do what he knew he had to do---that's just part of an Open type set-up!

[Joe Burbeck]

I don't recall designing a 255-yard carry over rough on #10. Mr. Meeks says that every player in the field can make that carry, so how come they didn't today, or earlier in the week when the weather was good? Why does they keep making these errors year after year after year?

Also, only 8% of the field of the best players in the world hit the 7th green in regulation. Perhaps it should play as a par-5 like we designed it (notice I said we A.W.).

Yes, the USGA has done it again. What a tradition.

[Paul Richards]

from today's Chicago Tribune:


PLAYERS UNLOAD A TORRENT OF ANGER AT USGA
Garcia accuses organization of favoring Woods
By Avani Patel
Tribune staff reporter

June 15, 2002

FARMINGDALE, N.Y. -- No, you can't control the weather. And no, a U.S. Open course is not supposed to play like this.

Long drives failed to find the fairways. The greens were soaked with rain, but still lightning fast. Mistakes were everywhere, forgiveness impossible to find.

The rain started early at Bethpage Black on Friday, before the first group of players teed off. And it didn't let up much. By the end of the day, the course was spotted with standing water.

Through it all, the United States Golf Association, which runs the tournament, refused to make any concessions to the conditions. That, according to some, was a mistake at best, a conspiracy at worse.

Sergio Garcia, who went into the day one stroke behind leader Tiger Woods, finished seven strokes off the pace.

He wasn't happy about his play. He was less pleased with the USGA, accusing it of trying to help Woods, who played in the morning, by making players with afternoon tee times continue their rounds in the non-stop rain.

"If Tiger Woods had been out there, I think it would have been called," Garcia said.

Not so, said Tom Meeks, who sets the Open courses for the USGA. "I can assure you that's not true. We did everything we could to stay on schedule. If the golf course is playable, then we're going to play."

Nick Price, who shot 75, was seething at the USGA for failing to shorten any of the holes.

"I give them an `F' for course setup today," Price said. "The ball's not driving at all. I wish they'd moved the tees up."

Especially, according to several players, the 499-yard, par-4 12th hole and the 492-yard 10th.

"[No. 12] is a beautiful hole," Nick Faldo said. "But it's not beautiful at [499] yards.

"I had to keep reminding myself--I am a golfer. This is golf. This is not fighting in the jungle," Faldo said after shooting 76. "That was a hard day at the office."

Meeks didn't dispute that, but said moving any tees, something the PGA Tour does occasionally, was out of the question in this USGA-run tournament.

"We've never done that, and I hope we never do that," Meeks said.

The only time the USGA ever has moved a tee, Meeks said, was in 1977 at Southern Hills when the tee box for one hole was set too close to another hole's green.

"We can't let the weather dictate how we're going to play the tees," he said.

Maybe not, but some players, such as Paul Azinger, were happy to take their leave of the weather, the course and the USGA.

"I'm glad I didn't make the cut," said Azinger, who had rounds of 75 and 82. "I never let up one time. I never slacked [on] a shot. I never didn't try my hardest. And I still hit 16, no 17, over."

Effort does not always translate into execution. And the game of golf can be like a fair-weather friend.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Paul Richards,

Reading that article, it seems to me that Tiger has gotten into their heads, and that they have thrown in the towel.

Cowardly Joe,

Should the USGA set the course up for the lowest common denominator ?  Didn't somebody shoot 67 and another 68 ?
This isn't entertainment PGA tour style,, its serious competition, USGA style.

Tell them to stop whining, hitch up their pants and play their ass off.

[Gene Greco]

Mess up:

      Stood on the tenth tee yesterday. No way 75% of the field reaches the fairway. Should have had tees up 15yds.


Sparkling:


       The conditioning of thiese fairways and greens are Augusta like. I never thought I'd see the day when the Black Course would ever look like this. It is beyond belief.


Prediction:

       This will be the first of many future US Opens held at this golf course.

[Craig Van Egmond]

More criticism by the players, is the honeymoon with the Black over?


http://www.golfweb.com/u/ce/multi/0,1977,5433546,00.html

[Patrick_Mucci]

Gene,

I think you're right.

The only thing against an early return is the number of events in the Metro area over the next few years.

I wish the weather had been better, but, they seem to handle it at the British Open, so what's the big deal, it's the same for everyone.

[Matt_Ward]

I have no issue with making things tough but let's not forget the word fair as well. This is a competition for the national title of Open Champion and I don't think a slight adjustment of a few yards to a few tees (specifically #10 and #12) on Friday's round would have been setting some major precedent.

Tom Meeks needs a reality check. The rain intensified throughout Friday and knowing the forecast going in I don't believe doing what Nick Price (a first rate champion and no whiner) suggested what have diminished the nature of the event or assisted players beyond reason.

[Geoff Shackelford]

What I don't understand about this year's fiasco is all the talk about curing the problem by moving tees a few yards. There was a 255 yard carry over rough just to get to the 10th fairway!! Players pointed out the problem early in the week when the weather was warm and the ball was carrying.

So to not have recognized the potential for a silly situation, well, looks like just plain old incompetence at work yet again. It's not as bad as Southern Hills or Olympic or Riviera for the 98 Senior Open, but close. How can all of these experts look at the 10th or 12th and not have anticipated a problem, and furthermore, how could they have thought a 255 yard carry on a 492 yard hole playing to a well bunkered fairway and green, was something that would improve the quality of the championship? For #10, Meeks' reply when he insisted all tour players can carry the ball 250 yards:

"Maybe I got some bad information."  Ugh.

For #12, he told Rich Lerner that players could just go around the fairway bunker if they couldn't carry it. What's the fairway width right of the bunker, 12 yards? And then you have what, 240 into the green from there if you can stay in the fairway?

Even with the silliness, if the USGA doesn't return to Bethpage for the Open every 7-8 years they are really out of touch. Now, if they could just do something with that jigsaw puzzle mess on 18...Rees, what were you thinking!?

[Bruceski]

Is there nothing more incessant than the whine of a spoiled professional athlete?

Short hitters who have fared just fine this week:

Nick Faldo
Justin Leonard
Corey Pavin (of all people!)

What do they have in common? They play their own game and take what the course gives them. Also, they're good.

Take out the outlier (Woods), and Faldo and Leonard are vying for the lead.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I think the USGA did a great job on the setup. the course is playing great. I do not know where it says you start a fairway in the middle of a hole. I think the fairway starts at the tee. this is creating a hazzard that I am having trouble understanding. Few on this site really like long forced carries which for wetland reasons are becoming more apart of the designs these days. All in all it looks great to me.

[Matt_Ward]

Geoff Shackelford:

I agree with what you say about the 18th. Rees did plenty of fine things with the course but the final hole is still abit lackluster. I'm not advocating mega length -- you've already face that on the course, but simply building a wall of sand on both sides of the hole really did not make the players even remotely think of pulling out the driver.

It's something that should be revisited for a future major at BB.

[BCrosby]

John Bernhardt -

You really think a hole set up is ok when more than half of the best players in the world can't reach the fairway from the tee?

And then you think its ok when the USGA says later that night that they can't change the tee markers by more than a "couple" of yards because, gosh, that's where they set the tee markers on Thursday?

All that makes sense to you?  That's how tournament venues ought to be se up?

Bob

[messed up]

The USGA will continue to screw up SOMEWHERE in the US OPEN setup as long as they let T Meeks set the course up. They should have a TOUR CALIBER player set up the course, and advise on the pin locations.

There should be someone on hand at the OPEN who can say, in advance, "I can play this setup". "I can hit that shot" "I can 2 putt that pin position"
The ANGC looks to players for advice.
The USGA ought to too.

There is a universe of difference between an 8 like Mr Meeks and a +4 like Mickelson. A UNIVERSE!

[TEPaul]

Actually the ideal answer for an Open setter-upper was probably one David Eger! Basically the guy hits the ball a lot like a tour pro for the simple reason he once was one (and now is again!).

Handicapper golfers doing set-ups for Tour pros tend to get a bit "formulaic" about yardages and over-reaching sometimes about what tour pros can actually do (this really becomes apparent in adverse weather conditions).

A guy like Meeks just wouldn't be able to "feel the adverse effect in his bones" the way an Eger would because Meeks was never able or faced with such things--but Eger was!

[brad_miller]

Mickelson....+4, NOT

[JakaB]

You guys think MacKenzie is a god even though he couldn't play a lick...and now Tom Meeks is given crap about his lack of playing ability in reference to his job.   Lets be specific in our criticism of Mr. Meeks because when you consider his performance under preassure I would say he is the +4 and SpongeFlop the 8.

[Paul Richards]

JakaB:

Then who should be wearing the 36 DD??

[Patrick_Mucci]

Said the waiter to the four totally spoiled women at the table,
IS ANYTHING RIGHT ?

The pros are the last people in the world who should be involved in the setup of the OPEN.

The USGA does a great job, but nobody's perfect.

Messed up,

You don't even have the balls to post under your own name, when personally attacking an individual who isn't here to defend himself.  Messed Up seems like a good moniker for you.

Bitch, Bitch, Bitch....... How about all the things that were done right.  And, it appears, even though I was against it, that teeing off from both nines let them get Fridays round in, which otherwise would have gone over to Saturday,
How come no one applauded that move which worked out great.

What do you turkeys know about setting up a golf course for
A USGA event ?

[TEPaul]

There's no question that starting some of those fairways that far out was not the best thing to do! What's the point of that? If a tour pro in today's Open can't hit the ball far enough to get to the beginning of some of those fairways the only penalty he should be faced with is the distance he has remaining on his next shot which of course would be plenty! Some of the distances to fairways at Bethpage should have been shortened--it should have been fairway not rough!!

Encumbering him with that much distance for his next shot and heavy rough too is just not the correct set-up--that set-up is pretty much indefensible. So why did Meeks recommend it if it was Meeks who recommended it? If Meeks recommended it did he really mean for those pros to hit the ball straight and not be able to reach a fairway? I would seriously doubt Meeks or anyone else intended that to happen!

So then why did it happen, why did they do it that way? I would say the logical explanation is they didn't really understand how far (or short) some pros hit the ball under certain circumstances!

[Tom_Egan]

Good Lord.  I must be spending WAY to much time lurking at this site.  I find myself in COMPLETE agreement with Pat Mucci's last post.  This picking on the USGA and Tom Meeks in particular has gone way, way over the edge.  Meeks is a very bright and dedicated individual who has spent 25+ years at the highest levels of golf administration.  He would surely admit that he makes a mistake from time to time, but his "batting average" is astronomically high.  Do you critics have any idea of the literally thousands of considerations and decisions that he has to deal with for the Open each year (not to mention the dozen or so other national championships he oversees)?  Does he not earn your utmost respect for making "right" decisions 99.999999999% of the time?  When he DOES make a wrong call (18th green at Olympic, two tee marker locations on one day at Bethpage) , these become his "identity".  You must KNOW thatt's not fair!  Why do you do this?  Does it make you feel better to fantasize that you are better suited to do his job than he is?

The issue of anonymous posting comes into this, as Pat has many times told us.  I'm not per se against anynomous posting;  I love Dr. Katz.  He's a true American hero and stands for all that is right and true in this country.

What I AM against, though, is using anonymity as a shield for one making personal charges he isn't willing to back up in person.  This is about the clearest example I can imagine of cheap shots.  I have no way of proving this, but I'd bet my last dollar that anyone stooping to this anonymous slander is almost certainly of the same ilk as those who have been asked to resign from clubs for cheating.  The mindset is the same.

Mr. Meeks, thanks again for a very good job on the 2002 Open.  Your involvement was an asset to the championship and increased my enjoyment of it.  

[GeoffreyC]

Well said Dr. Ka errr Tom Egan.