[Bob_Huntley]

I played a golf course yesterday, that I must have played at least a thousand times over the last thirty odd years. I had a third shot on a par five and found myself searching for a sprinkler head with the yardage to the hole. The more I thought about it,  the more I was dismayed by my inability to just get on with the shot at hand.

Has the Gene Andrews approach robbed us of the ability to eyeball a shot and get on with it or has the professional model conditioned us to meaure everything down to the last inch.

I realized that what I was doing was the exact same thing that I have excoriated others for doing over the years, namely, wasting time looking for yardages from anywhere.

This is a mea culpa, i have sinned, but no more.(Hopefully).


Bob

[Steve Lang]

  You must have had your left brain turned off, I assume however you were taking in and enjoying the natural setting ..

[TX Golf]

Bob,

I agree with you completely, and find myself doing the same thing quite often. On my home course which I have played hundred and hundreds of times, I find myself looks for a yardage, when if I were to just think about where I am, I could probably estimate within a couple yards. Even as a scratch player the difference between 181 and 183 is going to effect me one bit. I always find myself needing to remind myself to just hit the dang ball!!!

[Matt_Cohn]

Bob,

A couple of years ago I was fortunate enough to play SFGC. I asked my caddie to refrain from giving me the yardage on each hole until after I'd had a chance to guess. On the first few holes I was consistently off by 10% or more and my caddie happily corrected me. I improved throughout the round, and by the middle of the back nine I matched my caddie's number on every hole.

A lot of us might not trust our ability to gauge distances accurately, in part because we rarely put it to use. But my experience is that, with just a little warm-up and calibration, we're better at it than we think.

So to answer your question, I actually don't think it's robbed us of our ability to eyeball; I think it's robbed us of our trust in that ability!

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bob,

As time goes on, I find I also have to guage how well I think I might hit the ball.  Nowadays, 140 can be a wedge through a 7!

[John Burzynski]

Maybe it is just the courses around here, but all of them are clearly marked from 100, 150, and 200 with either a yardage post or a 12" concrete marker int he center of the fairway at each distance.  Between this and the sprinkler heads, it is awfully difficult to not be able to guesstimate a yardage to within 10 yards from almost anywhere on a hole.   

Certainly the posts are visible, and if I am a bit more than halfway between the 100 and 150 yard marker then I know I am 130'ish.  What does it matter if I am 133 or 128 or 137 out?   My shot will be pretty much the same, as will my club.  The brain takes over from there, anyhow.   Hell, I am probably happy just to hit the green from there...

[Melvyn Morrow]

Oh Yea of Little Faith in your own inbuilt abilities – shame on the lot of you that need markers – call yourself golfers. 

God gave you two eyes to judge distances, but you do not trust them you - need additional aids – Oh yea of little faith indeed – doubting Thomas’s all of you. 

Now I am taking the moral high ground

[Jeff_Brauer]

I think courses could go with the 100-150-200-250 markers and line John B, be fine.  With all the Pelz short game fans out there, I see more and more sprinklers marked under 100 yards.  I have not seen, but think I will, sprinklers beside and behind greens marked so players can calculate their recovery shot distance.

John B,

You don't happen to have a relative in Texas do you? I have a bud of the same name who is also a Packer fan!

[Chip Gaskins]

I have a really good friend that used to work with the European PGA tour in the 80s-90s.  He has a great story of a twosome of Bernard Langer and someone else (I forget) and my buddy inside the ropes.  He hears Bernard ask his caddie "how far to over the bunker from the sprinkler head" and the caddie says something like "154" and Bernard goes in a perfectly stoic Germany accent "Is that to the front of the sprinkler head or the back?"  Classic!

[Steve Burrows]

The assistant pro at a course where I used to work would bring tell me that it was more important for him to have precise yardages from within 100 yards than it was from outside.  He claimed that he wanted to be able to "dial in" his wedges, so he would bring out his laser on each and every shot, even from 20-30 yards, whereas I simply eye-balled it and started swinging. 

I was quite dismayed at his methods, and it really seemed to stretch out the length of time we were on the course.  And, he was never that "dialed in" to begin with.

[Tom Huckaby]

Bob -I'd say as with most sins, the depth of guilt is dependent on the circumstances surrounding the act.

Was there any meaning to the shot at hand?  How much was riding on it in the wolf (or other) game?

I ask because as Matt shows, sure any of us CAN gauge distances if we try.  And if it's just a fun meaningless game with friends, then by all means just get on with it - searching for sprinkler heads there seems silly.

But I betcha Matt won't be eyeballing things in his next USGA qualifier... and nor should you be expected to do so if a good shot means robbing a guy like me or Benham of our hard-earned funds.

Sad to say perhaps, but so long as courses are marked and one's opponents are using such markings, it's a pretty silly moral high ground to take to cede the competitive advantage.

TH

[Phil Benedict]

Pat Mucci started a thread suggesting that we experiment with playing without reference to yardage markers - trust our eyes.

I tried this at the Beechtree GCA outing.  Guess what?  I misclubbed a lot on approach shots.

[Scott Macpherson]

Bob,

A couple of years ago I was fortunate enough to play SFGC. I asked my caddie to refrain from giving me the yardage on each hole until after I'd had a chance to guess. On the first few holes I was consistently off by 10% or more and my caddie happily corrected me. I improved throughout the round, and by the middle of the back nine I matched my caddie's number on every hole.

Matt, did it cross your mind that half way down the back nine, your caddy maybe be just agreeing with you to increase their tip? I find that some caddy even resort to flattery! "Nice shot Sir", "Did you ever try for the Tour?", "Surely you can't be THAT old?", etc etc.

Scott

[John Burzynski]

I think courses could go with the 100-150-200-250 markers and line John B, be fine.  With all the Pelz short game fans out there, I see more and more sprinklers marked under 100 yards.  I have not seen, but think I will, sprinklers beside and behind greens marked so players can calculate their recovery shot distance.

John B,

You don't happen to have a relative in Texas do you? I have a bud of the same name who is also a Packer fan!

None that I know of...although my last name is much more common than you would think.

[Melvyn Morrow]

The Alcoholic has to have his shot to make him face the moment

The Drunk Driver must have one for the road

The Smoker must have his smoke after every taste of food.

The Junky needs his fix many times a day.

The list goes, but what do all these groups of people have in common? They need a ‘fix’ to get going.

So what is the difference between a yardage/distance junky who needs his distance shot before hitting his ball and any of the above – in short very little – all need a confidence booster, a make me feel good dose. Distance information has become a crutch - throw it away and within a very short time you will wonder why you ever bothered because your own eyes can do the job faster and quicker than any outside information aid.     

But, no you will not – because you think you maybe missing something. Yet have you ever stopped to wonder about the guys who don’t use them or the courses that have no markers? No, I expect you have not, because you have got yourself so reliant on this information that it will initially affect your game. So what does that make you? Well, see if you can work that one out without any outside aid!

I’m not trying to stop you using them or clubs having them in place, but they are what they are, just outside information reducing your sense of perception and clouding your own inbuilt ability and co-ordination. Just like alcohol or drugs it gives you a high (confidence) which you just don’t need to play golf.

I know I have not convinced any of you so enjoy you ‘trip’ on your next round and think of us poor guys that have to suffer the idiotic scenes verging on the  comic watching golfers searching out markers etc then pacing out distance, or fumbling with their electron range finders. Regrettable the ‘Addictive Distance Spotting Twit’ is not a species that is on the verge of extinction – mores the pity.   
 

[Tom Huckaby]

Melvyn:

I doubt anyone here would argue any of the points made in that last post.  I truly believe that most if not all would enjoy golf without distance aids.

However, my take remains that when the competition gets exact distance information, it's foolish for one to put one's self at a competitive disadvantage by foresaking such.

Do you disagree with that?

TH

[Tom_Doak]

Melvyn:

I'm sure I don't have to explain this to you, but for the benefit of others, links golf is very different.  You seldom have to carry hazards, and the ground is firm, so if you hit your shot on line and with the right weight, it should end up somewhere around the hole, whether by air or by ground.

American golf is a bit different ... lots of forced carries over water or bunkers, where if you guess wrong by 5-10 yards, you pay the penalty.  That's why most American golfers insist on having yardages.  And once they get used to them, they're useless without 'em.

I was playing at High Pointe the other day with a friend and suddenly realized it was exactly 20 years since I invited a bunch of people up here to be the first to play it.  I started trying shots I hadn't tried in at least 15 years ... punch-and-run six-irons from 110 yards, hooked 3-woods, etc. ... and won five consecutive holes to close out my match.  Mind over matter!

[Matt_Cohn]

Bob,

A couple of years ago I was fortunate enough to play SFGC. I asked my caddie to refrain from giving me the yardage on each hole until after I'd had a chance to guess. On the first few holes I was consistently off by 10% or more and my caddie happily corrected me. I improved throughout the round, and by the middle of the back nine I matched my caddie's number on every hole.

Never crossed my mind because I was pin-high a lot on the back nine.   

Matt, did it cross your mind that half way down the back nine, your caddy maybe be just agreeing with you to increase their tip? I find that some caddy even resort to flattery! "Nice shot Sir", "Did you ever try for the Tour?", "Surely you can't be THAT old?", etc etc.

Scott

[JLahrman]

Within 5 yards is fine for me.  I also think being able to judge the height of the flagstick has a lot to do with being able to accurately estimate yardages.  I often find myself wondering how far something is in the distance when I'm not at a golf course - a mailbox, a building, whatever.  I try to guess what club I would need to hit it there, and I think I am very inaccurate.

[Tom Yost]

Used to play with a guy who would always march off his distances from the marker.  It became a joke that whenever there was a tee setup within a half-step of the yardage marker, someone would stand on the marker and precisely step off the half-step then announce, "I've got 152 and a HALF to the middle..."   

[Melvyn Morrow]

Tom H

I wonder who really is at a disadvantage – I thing that's my underlining point.

Tom D

I have not played in North America, so am at a disadvantage, but our game is different and to be totally honest I just want to play my normal way.  To me it’s all about enjoyment and relaxation, my own body working in harmony with itself and the surrounding landscape. The ability to play 36 holes at a steady pace, totally at one with mind and body, of walking and admiring the layout of the course yet completely focused and aware of the challenges ahead hopefully trying to avoid my earlier mistakes.  

It is indeed a question of mind over matter – I mind to play my game and that is what matters.

[Bob_Huntley]

I was wondering whether Melvyn uses a caddie when playing. The better caddies at TOC see their man tee off and after the first shot hand him a club. No talk of distance, wind or elevation, a five iron is handed over and nine times out of ten it works. Of course the caddie has walked and played the links for fifty years and doesn't have to have a yardage chart...he is the yardage chart.

Bob

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom H

I wonder who really is at a disadvantage – I thing that's my underlining point.

Well, you'd have a difficult task proving that the one without the distance knowledge is at anything but a competitive disadvantage, at least here in America.  Tom Doak's post speaks volumes to me.

Perhaps it might work that way in links golf, or in a lot of wind even here.  I know in each of those circumstances I myself tend to foresake yardage information for the most part, as it matters little.

But in normal golf over here, with such defined targets, hazards to clear, etc... well... let's just say that I await your arguments.  It will be a difficult case.

TH

[Melvyn Morrow]

Bob

No, I don’t se caddies, never have.

My comments are based upon how I was taught to play golf.  Distance/club selection depended from experience and ones own judgement.  Yardage markers never came into our game. It was as always just about you, the golfer playing the course.

I look back now over the years and in all truth I am forever thankful to my father for teaching me to play golf in the same manner he was taught. I have never been good enough to win at golf but on the other hand without that pressure I have been able to really enjoy the game. I feel that I have experienced the real magic and extreme pleasure one can get from a sport. Playing in my father’s footsteps has given me the relaxed ability to enjoy the outdoors and in particular St Andrews. The strict rules and behaviour required also attracted me to golf.

I can play an average game, but just hit one perfect shot which will make my day. Its all about self belief and to use outside aids in my mind dismisses my own efforts and achievements. Others of course will have a different attitude which they are totally entitled to have.  I am honoured to play a game that my family has been involved with since the mid 18th Century. My golfing family does not stop at Old Tom, but includes his brother George, also Charlie Hunter of Prestwick when a Hunter married Elizabeth Morris, my great grandmother & grandfather.

Play at Askernish and you will play a course with no markers of any kind, reflecting the real 19th Century Links golf – next time you are over, I would suggest you allow sometime to play a couple of rounds. I don’t think it will disappoint.   

[Bob_Huntley]

Bob

 

Play at Askernish and you will play a course with no markers of any kind, reflecting the real 19th Century Links golf – next time you are over, I would suggest you allow sometime to play a couple of rounds. I don’t think it will disappoint.   

Melvyn,

I do it quite often....at Cypress Point.

Bob

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