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Garland Bayley

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Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« on: October 08, 2008, 03:43:03 PM »
Any guesses, educated or otherwise on who Mike might pick?

Link to LORNE RUBENSTEIN article
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 07:23:57 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Richard Choi

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Re: Whitman and Wier GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2008, 04:03:46 PM »
Hmmmm....

Doesn't this quote:

"I want to build courses that somebody who is a 20-handicapper can play."

contradict this quote?

"Weir is a fan of courses such as Riviera, where he's won two PGA Tour events, Colonial in Fort Worth, Harbour Town in Hilton Head Island, S.C., and Muirfield Village in Dublin, Ohio."

Will MacEwen

Re: Whitman and Wier GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2008, 04:09:43 PM »
I am sure Mr. Thompson will spill all the juicy details here.

Would Canadian designers like McBroom and Carrick be too established for this type of role?

Garland Bayley

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Re: Whitman and Wier GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2008, 04:25:23 PM »
I am sure Mr. Thompson will spill all the juicy details here.

Would Canadian designers like McBroom and Carrick be too established for this type of role?


Don't know why they would be. They just don't have the proper initial. I was looking for W&W to go with C&C. ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Whitman and Wier GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2008, 05:20:44 PM »
A & W has such a nice ring too....
And the logo is ready to go.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Whitman and Wier GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2008, 05:35:31 PM »
Andrew & Wier. Cool idea too Mike.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jeremy Rivando

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Re: Whitman and Wier GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2008, 06:47:20 PM »
I can't see Mike going with Carrick, too big a name, I'd be rather surprised.

I would think it would be a benefit for him to go with someone a little more low profile, who is happy to have the spotlight on Mike and someone who has a team around them that can put together more than just a golf course.  I'd assume with IMG involved your potentially looking at some big developments, real estate, vineyards...etc

Richard,

I'm sure Riviera, Colonial, Muirfield and Harbour Town have their fair share of 20 handicappers, it's a matter of making courses playable, those 4 courses are rather short as opposed to most modern courses. 

Don't we all (GCA'ers) wish more courses were being built like Harbour Town and Riviera?

Bob_Huntley

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Re: Whitman and Wier GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2008, 06:59:27 PM »
I can't see Mike going with Carrick, too big a name, I'd be rather surprised.

I would think it would be a benefit for him to go with someone a little more low profile, who is happy to have the spotlight on Mike and someone who has a team around them that can put together more than just a golf course.  I'd assume with IMG involved your potentially looking at some big developments, real estate, vineyards...etc

Richard,

I'm sure Riviera, Colonial, Muirfield and Harbour Town have their fair share of 20 handicappers, it's a matter of making courses playable, those 4 courses are rather short as opposed to most modern courses. 

Don't we all (GCA'ers) wish more courses were being built like Harbour Town and Riviera?

Riviera has a bunch of 20 handicappers but most of them claim to play off of a 7.

Bob

Jason McNamara

Re: Whitman and Wier [sic] GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2008, 07:18:55 PM »
Isn't the spelling of Mike's name here just a little WEIRd?

Picky, but here's why it matters:  Now that the search function here is very much improved, spelling counts.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2008, 07:24:48 PM »
Isn't the spelling of Mike's name here just a little WEIRd?

Picky, but here's why it matters:  Now that the search function here is very much improved, spelling counts.

Woops. I guess my only excuse is that there is no 'c' in Weir.
 :'(
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Duane Sharpe

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Re: Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2008, 07:32:22 PM »
I think Jeff Mingay's a 20 handicapper too. At least the last round I played with him!!
Sharpee

Bob Jenkins

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Re: Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2008, 11:43:52 PM »

As I have a cottage and am a member at Predator Ridge, I was curious when told, not long after the Canadian Skins Game held at Predator last June (Weir, Norman, Villegas, Mongomerie and Couples played) that Mike Weir was involved in a possible course near Predator, which has been a very successful development and golf course.

The site adjacent to Predator Ridge is immediately below and to the east of the Predator Ridge courses and development. Parts of that land has views of Lake Kalamalka, which has incredibly bright tourquoise waters and is gorgeous.

Doug Carrick is currently designing and building the new nine at Predator Ridge, which is to the west of the current courses. I would have to assume that Mr. Carrick and Mr. Weir, both being from southern Ontario, may have a chat.

Bob Jenkins

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Re: Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2008, 11:44:47 PM »

I may add that I would personally love to see Mr. Weir and Rod Whitman get together, if it is to go.

Adam Clayman

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Re: Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2008, 11:55:01 PM »
Robert has posted some insight into the process on Shaq's site tonight.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

RJ_Daley

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Re: Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2008, 12:48:13 AM »
Robert's comments obviously eliminate Rod W. since he didn't apply, but also gave me some reason  to think we might know who Weir might pick...  ;) ;D

Someone told me they thought Rod was one of the best golf minds in the golf construction/design biz.  If so, other than for marketing a big pro name, why would he need that sort of association? 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2008, 11:32:05 AM »
Robert's comments obviously eliminate Rod W. since he didn't apply, but also gave me some reason  to think we might know who Weir might pick...  ;) ;D

Someone told me they thought Rod was one of the best golf minds in the golf construction/design biz.  If so, other than for marketing a big pro name, why would he need that sort of association? 

Is not Bill Coore one of the best minds in GCA? Why would he need Ben? Part om my original thought was that Mike and Ben are similar on several levels, therefore W&W would be akin to C&C.

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Will MacEwen

Re: Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2008, 11:54:03 AM »
Garland,

What was Coore's profile pre-Crenshaw?

I was young and foolish for most of the 90s, so have no clue.

If someone is established and busy, I can see them not wanting to cut Weir a slice of the pie.


Garland Bayley

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Re: Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2008, 12:42:02 PM »
If my recollection is correct, Coore and Whitman both worked with Dye.

Coore had done a few courses before Crenshaw, perhaps not with as much aclaim as Whitman has received. But also perhaps before this website began talking Whitman up and before Paul Daley published books talking him up.

Notice the nature of the naming. It is Coore and Crenshaw. I am proposing Whitman and Weir. I would think a man on top of his game would welcome a strong differing viewpoint, and benefit from it. Coore appears to me to be the dominant influence in C&C courses. I would expect Whitman to be the dominant influence in W&W courses.

Why shouldn't Doak and Dye recruit another viewpoint to their teams. How about Dye and Duval? Doak and Donald?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kavanaugh

Re: Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2008, 12:52:08 PM »
Doak was not a huge fan of at least one of Coores early individual designs giving King's Crossing a 2 in the Confidential Guide.  pg 186.

Richard Choi

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Re: Whitman and Wier GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2008, 01:41:21 PM »
Richard,

I'm sure Riviera, Colonial, Muirfield and Harbour Town have their fair share of 20 handicappers, it's a matter of making courses playable, those 4 courses are rather short as opposed to most modern courses. 

Don't we all (GCA'ers) wish more courses were being built like Harbour Town and Riviera?

I am sure they have their share of 20 handicappers, but I don't think the fact that they are short from the back tees matter much to 20 handicappers as they are probably playing from the white tees which are probably similar length as with courses that are 7400 yards from the back.

What I know about those courses is that the fairways are pretty narrow and trees block many approach angles. I don't think that spells "playable" for 20 handicappers.

Robert Thompson

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Re: Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2008, 04:04:55 PM »
The Weir gig didn't fit with Rod for a variety of reasons that are known, I guess, to him. He certainly came recommended (by Ben Crenshaw). We're down to six architects in the process now -- and should have a sense of the four being interviewed in the short term. I consider a couple of them to be friends -- so I really have no idea who will get the gig and it won't be my decision anyway. Suffice to say that all four are really strong designers with great backgrounds that would fit with Mike's goals for the firm. I think the desire is to find a designer who can establish a specific look and aesthetic that is unique to Weir's courses.

Here's what I wrote on Geoff's site:

1) There are actually more than 30 designers working in Canada, especially if you count associates at firms that are very capable of doing their own courses if given the chance.

2) We approached many of them. One goal -- though not the overriding one -- is to find a designer whose style isn't defined in the public's mind, a designer who can develop courses with Mike that are unique to the partnership. Our hope is the designer will work just with Weir Golf Design.

3) Those interested designers (and there were more than a dozen) were asked to submit plans, routings, marketing, working with Mike, etc. based on a site in BC. The panel, with Mike's involvement, narrowed that group to four or five (it hasn't been determined). Those remaining architects will come in for one-on-one interviews with Mike in November and he'll decide who he is most comfortable with. All the architects are very capable of doing good work, and a couple have done outstanding work in Canada already.

4) Rod Whitman, who I have tons of respect for, did not participate in the process.

5) A lot of the selection process was based on the selection of a designer for the Castle Course at St. Andrews. It is almost like an RFP, with the goal of each designer showing us their best ideas.

6) The hope is we'll create a unique firm with which Mike is going to do far more than just cut ribbons and attend media days. He wants to learn the business and bring his insight to it. And he is a big fan of classic golf design, so I expect that should translate into his work.


Robert's comments obviously eliminate Rod W. since he didn't apply, but also gave me some reason  to think we might know who Weir might pick...  ;) ;D

Someone told me they thought Rod was one of the best golf minds in the golf construction/design biz.  If so, other than for marketing a big pro name, why would he need that sort of association? 
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Garland Bayley

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Re: Whitman and Weir GCA dream team (one can hope)
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2008, 04:29:18 PM »
Thanks for the explanation Robert.

I guess we are now hoping for A&W. ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne