Are Long Par 5 Closing Holes A Phenomenon Of Modern Tournament Golf

[Andrew Summerell]

Watching the Turning Stone tournament over the weekend it occurred to me how boring & length-centric long par 5 finishing holes are in tournament golf. There seems to be quite a few designed over the last 30 years, especially on resort style courses.

Is this just a phenomenon of, and caused by, modern tournament golf?

How many of the better Golden Era courses had (comparatively) a long par 5 closing hole?

[J_ Crisham]

Andrew,
     Beverly CC has a very fine long par 5 finishing hole. It is 590 yds. It features a dogleg right at about 290 yds off the tee. It also has a rather severe back to front sloped green.  I think this is one of the better finishing holes in Chicago. Even though it is a par 5 it doesn't yield many birdies. Ross would be proud of how well it has defended par since 1908.
                                                            Jack 

[Mike Sweeney]

National Golf Links, The Creek, Yale, Mountain Lake (18 is now a par 4) all are Par 5 closers.

[David_Tepper]

Pebble Beach. Royal County Down.

[Phil McDade]

Andrew:

A lengthy and quirky final hole (577 yds) at this Wisconsin course, built by combining two shoritsh par 4s from the original routing that dates to 1920:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36792.0.html

[Andrew Summerell]

National Golf Links, The Creek, Yale, Mountain Lake (18 is now a par 4) all are Par 5 closers.

I'd forgotten about Yale. I haven't played it for over a decade.

I don't believe NGLA was in the 'Golden Era' & it's not that long a par 5 even back then.

[Andrew Summerell]

Pebble Beach. Royal County Down.

RCD is not 'Golden Era'.

I thought about Pebble Beach, but it started it's life as a par 4 I think (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am wrong ) Was the hole lengthened for the US Amateur?

[David_Tepper]

Andrew -

Please remind me of your "Golden Era" timeframe  parameters. Both Wentworth and Royal Birkdale finish with back-to-back par-5's.

DT 

[TX Golf]

SFGC also finishes with a par 5

[Andrew Summerell]

Andrew -

Please remind me of your "Golden Era" timeframe  parameters. Both

To be fair your suggestion of NGLA could be included because I know many in America consider the Golden Era to start with the construction of NGLA. On a world scale I've always considered the Golden Era started at the end of WWI.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

 I was up there at the start of the week, and the course was beyond wet and soft.  The large bunker takes a carry of 305 to clear.  From what my friend had to say, it was downwind the first 3 days.  I am not sure how far back the tees were set, but do know that the longer players were clearing it.  Dustin Johnson might be 20 yards longer than Bubba Watson and Tiger Woods, so it is no surprise that he blitzed the par 5's.  This is a terrible hole, and with the lake being artificial, really what the hell was Fazio envisoning?   Also, there are some new waterfalls since the NY State PGA was contested here.

[Cory Brown]

This might be a bit off topic, but why do so few courses (I can't think of any off the top of my head) have a driveable Par 4 as the finisher?  It seems like it could create a lot of drama, whether for a Professional tournament or a friendly match.

[David_Tepper]

Cory -

The Old Course has one!

DT

[Gerry B]

not all long by today's standards but here are a few more:

fox chapel - raynor and it is a beauty
mpcc dunes - raynor
shoreacres - raynor
fishers island -depending on the tee box - raynor
piping rock - cbm / raynor
olympia fields south - bendelow
olympia fields north - willie park - plays as a five or 4 depending on the tee
capilano - stanley thompson
indian creek - flynn

[Matt_Cohn]

I think the emphasis is on    LOOOONG    par-5 closing holes.

Pebble, Baltusrol, etc. don't count.

[Max Schechter]

Andrew - I think a good barometer for the influence of modern tournament golf on architecture is TPC courses, especially those that are standard tour stops. It seems that for every example of a TPC course finishing with a long par 5, there is also an example of a TPC course finishing with a comparatively long and difficult par 4.

Off the top of my head, courses with par 4 finishers that I can name Sawgrass (Players), Deere Run (John Deere), Scottsdale (FBR), Las Colinas (Byron Nelson), Summerlin (still used?), PGA West (Q-school, old Skins, et al), etc.

Now putting water hazards on the closing hole is something that I definitely think is a result of modern tournament golf.

[David_Tepper]

Matt -

I am pretty sure those Golden Age par-5 were considered plenty long when they were built in the Golden Age. Reaching #18 in two at Pebble Beach was VERY rare 20-30 years ago.

DT