[Matt_Cohn]

so bad that nobody on GCA can name a wonderful hole which contains that feature?

-OR-

so great that nobody on GCA can name a bad hole which contains that feature?

[Ian_L]

A completely flat green?

[James Bennett]

A completely flat green?

9th Old Course

[Chris Kane]

9th Old Course

Surely you're not suggesting that this is a "wonderful hole"?

[Phil_the_Author]

The mountain of granite that sits in front of the green on the 18th hole of the St. Marlo's CC in Duluth, Georgia. Far and away the single worst hole I have ever seen, a 460-yard par-five where one has to play over the granite to reach the green.

I refuse to play that hole ever again and always end my rounds there on 17...

[Will MacEwen]

Does a giant target (concentric circles) painted on a cliff on a narrow blind hole qualify as a feature?  If so, I nominate Furry Creek as the inspiration.

[Tony Ristola]

Chris,
Flat green alternative; Kiawah Ocean's 3rd.
(I remember it being flat.)
The elevation of the green and flatness combine to make a challenging approach for the shortest par-4 on the course. There are no contours to work the ball off of.

[RJ_Daley]

I'll go with a pregreen nose, or poof that is not as big as the entire front opening of the green, is about 2-3ft high and maybe 3-5 yards in diameter, like a pimple or however you'd like to call it.  The idea is it provides a bit of mystery to a shot landing in the pre-green apron, that can give any of severa potential deflections right to a pin, or off to a side or stop the shot up short of the green.  I love the one at 14 Wild Horse. 

Also, I'll offer up consideration of a surprise small pot bunker behind a green.  One that only gathers minimally, not widely. 

Generally, I'd say false fronts are always on good holes...  maybe someone has specific of a horrible one. 

[Tony_Muldoon]

A completely flat green?

There's 18 of those at Woodhall Spa.

Can't think of a poor hole with a front to back sloping green.

[Kalen Braley]

A completely flat green?

There's 18 of those at Woodhall Spa.

Can't think of a poor hole with a front to back sloping green.

Theres a 9 holer in Spokane that has one of these and its bad.

Its a medium length par 4 and the hole slopes pretty severly from front to back.  I usually approach it with an 8 iron and have no chance of holding the green.  Longer hitters could hold the green with a wedge approach.

To make matters worse, the green is elevated above the fairway and the entire front of the slope which faces the fairway is maintained as rough, so a run up is out of the question.  And with a front pin its pretty much an impossible hole to birdie because even a well struck shot will roll to the back half of the green leaving at least a 30 footer or more.

[James Bennett]

9th Old Course

Surely you're not suggesting that this is a "wonderful hole"?

fair point.  It is a unique feature on a wonderful course.  And, what is amazing is that it is still there, unmoved, despite an availability of land behind to 'extend' the length a la Birkdale #17.

For a good course with some flat greens, try Moortown in Leeds.  They have some very good two-shot holes (ie long 4's, and a short 5) that have flat greens.  On a 450 yard par 4, this has two effects.  The shot to the green has to use some ground game, as you cannot 'hit and stick' to such a green.  And, if you have not been able to get near the green in regulation (eg missed fairway off the tee followed by a 150 yard recovery) then the 50 yards or so left is very difficult to judge (flatness of green to surrounding profile) and also difficult to stop.  The first, 3rd and 6th (a Steele hole?) are examples early in the round.

Moortown also has the undulating greens to contrast these flatter greens, eg par 3's 8 and 10 (Gibralter) and of course #18.

James B

[Ian Andrew]

A cave?
A silo (there are examples up this way)?
A giant boulder directly in play
A tree dead centre in front of the green
A hedge that makes a shot intentionally blind
A strip of bluegrass through the middle of the landing area 250 yards off the tee where the fairway is flat

shall I go on

You work in this business long enough - you manage to see things that nobody should see - sometimes even on good courses too.

[Chris Cupit]

The mountain of granite that sits in front of the green on the 18th hole of the St. Marlo's CC in Duluth, Georgia. Far and away the single worst hole I have ever seen, a 460-yard par-five where one has to play over the granite to reach the green.

I refuse to play that hole ever again and always end my rounds there on 17...

And, it plays straight uphill all the way--I think you can actually have your ball end up in a "cave" under the rock   A peach.

[Tim Bert]

A long, skinny green that is over 50 yards deep and as narrow as 6 yards wide in places with long, skinny, deep greenside bunkers on each side?

I'll leave it to others to decide if I'm putting this in category A or category B.

[Chris Cupit]

A hole with three different greens.
Double greens other than at St. Andrews.  Seriously, where else does it work?
Internal out of bounds--I can't say I've ever seen it where I liked it.

A feature that always seems to work is a drive across a diagonal--a "cape" type drive whether across water or a huge bunker that let's a player challenge as much as he likes.

[James Bennett]

A long, skinny green that is over 50 yards deep and as narrow as 6 yards wide in places with long, skinny, deep greenside bunkers on each side?

I'll leave it to others to decide if I'm putting this in category A or category B.

Sounds like Lakeside #13 in Los Angeles, by Max Behr.  A short par 4 with a dogleg, making the angle of play into the green very demanding, and exacting on distance control.

I only played it once, so I can't say whether it is category A or Category B.  I will always remember it fondly despite failing at my attempt to play it well.

James B

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