"a distinctive barrier to run-up shots"

[Ronald Montesano]

Since the LPGA Samsung World Challenge is being contested at Half Moon Bay this week, I decided to take a look at the courses there.  As I was reading the hole-by-hole descriptions, the following popped up in the description of the eighth hole of the Ocean course:

"however a coyote bush has been left in place, 60 yards out, as a distinctive barrier to run-up shots."

This, quite frankly, spooks me.  Why would you ever want to discourage the run-up shot, especially on a coastal course at the mercy of the wind?

[David_Tepper]

Ronald -

I was at the tournament in Half Moon Bay yesterday and have played the course a few times a good number of years ago.

The 8th hole is the most inland green on the golf course. I am guessing it is 1,000 yards or more from the ocean. I am not saying I approve of putting "a distinctive barrier to run-up shots" there, just giving you more information.

The 16th green is right on the bluff overlooking the ocean and has a drainage swale /creek bed the runs all the way across the front of that green.  For environmental reasons, I doubt it would have been allowed to install a drainage pipe and then fill in fairway over it. The hole is a fairly short par-4, so that means most players will be able to hit aerial shots into the green.

Like many courses in the U.S. that claim to be 'links-style" courses, closer inspection reveals they still promote the aerial game.

On the other hand, you can't run the ball on to the #1 green at the Old Course or #16 at Turnberry either.

DT
tcmnav@aol.com

[Ronald Montesano]

Sure you can run it on the 1st green at The Old Course...many have bounced it in over the burn.  Can you roll it in?  No.  Even 1000 yards from the Pacific is still close enough to be influenced by the winds.  Hopefully I'll return to Scotland one year to play Turnberry and others.  Thanks for your insight.

[Eric_Terhorst]

The 16th green is right on the bluff overlooking the ocean and has a drainage swale /creek bed the runs all the way across the front of that green.  For environmental reasons, I doubt it would have been allowed to install a drainage pipe and then fill in fairway over it. The hole is a fairly short par-4, so that means most players will be able to hit aerial shots into the green.

DT,

I played the course once, and I do not remember that 16th hole, but I was interested to watch on tv as player after player hit short irons to the front of that green, only to see it bounce high and long into the rough beyond the green.  Ochoa, Creamer, and several others had nasty up-n-downs from behind that green.  Are the greens supposed to be THAT firm and fast?  Or did the wind make it difficult to stop the ball? 

ET

[David_Tepper]

ET -

I thought links-ish greens were supposed to be firm!

On #16, there is probably 5-10 yards between the drainage swale and the front of the green.  Yesterday, I stood about 5 yards from Angela Park (a VERY nice golf swing, by the way!) as she hit an 8-iron out of the left rough from about 138 yards. The shot was downwind a bit.  Her shot landed in the light rough just short of the green and rolled towards the back of the green.  It did stay on the green. Had her shot landed on the green, it might well have rolled thru.

I don't know how the wind was today. I certainly can see it being very tough holding that green if the hole is downwind. On the other hand, a good drive downwind should leave the top women no more than 125 yards, which should leave them 9-iron/PW.  If I remember correctly, the green on #16 is fairly flat.  If the green was raised a bit towards the back, it certainly would make holding the green a little easier.

DT     

[Bill_McBride]

David, that's the original Palmer course at HMB then, right?  I haven't played the new Art Hills course but your description of #16 sounds like the good hole there for many years.

[David_Tepper]

Bill -

The Samsung LPGA event is being played on the Art Hill designed course (the newer of the two) at Half Moon Bay. That is the course we are discussing here.

DT

[Ronald Montesano]

Thanks for the clarification that I failed to make in my initial post...New course.

[Anthony Fowler]

There are plenty of good reasons you would want to discourage the run-up shot, even on an ocean course.

Kittansett, very much a wind/ocean course, has some great cross bunkers and cross rough that increase strategy by making the player think on a second shot of a par 5 or serve as a penalty for hitting it in the rough or trees. 

If every hole allowed an easy run up, there would be almost no penalty for moderate rough.  The rough would have to be grown to a level where players lose balls in order for it to be an adequate penalty.

Finally, I don't understand why the player should always be able to run the ball up to the green (especially land it 60 yards short).  There are plenty of cases where the architect forces the player to play a running shot, and that is fine.  Likewise, it is fine when the architect forces a player to play an aerial shot.  The players should be required to use a variety of shots to score well and adequate penalties should be put in place to reward good play over bad play.

[John Moore II]

I have not played the course, nor seen any pictures, but is it possible this 'distinctive barrier' is designed not to prevent the ground game, but perhaps require the player to hit a more precise shot in order to run the ball up? Like I say, I have never seen it, so I am just making an observation about what might be going on. Plus, yardage guides tend to 'stretch' the truth about really playing a hole.