O.T.-Club Championship Format

[A.G._Crockett]

A little input, please:

My club has instituted the following format for the club tournament.

1. A three-day stroke-play format for the championship flight of the club tournament, with the flight open to anyone and played at scratch. 

2. Play in the championship flight begins at 1:00 on Friday, and continues on Saturday and Sunday.

3. All other flights are by handicaps, and play two days, Saturday and Sunday.

4. The "club champion" will be the winner of the championship flight, regardless of gross scores in the other flights.

I am simply unable to blow off work on Friday(s) to play.  It's impossible.  Since I am excluded from competing for the club championship, I elected not to play.  I expressed my disappointment in the fact that in order to be the club champion the two requirements are that you have to play really good golf AND be able to take Friday afternoon off, but got nowhere.

My question to the Tree House is how many of you have a club championship tournament that involves weekday work-hours play?  What, exactly, is the format of your club's championship?

Thanks in advance.

[Bruce Leland]

A.G.:

It's sad to say but the Club Championship at my club has deteriorated to a single round of stroke play due to lack of interest on the part of the general membership.  We have a 2 man liar's (handicapped four-ball stableford) tournament that draws significantly more interest than the club championship, much to my chagrin! 

As someone who plays off between scratch and two, I compete each year in the latter and actually won the event with our greenskeeper (a legitimate 7 hdcp.) last year only to be rebuffed in the first round this year by a 13 who shot 76 and a 9 who shot 73.

It is a miserable state of affairs but that, apparently, is the make up of our club.  We have 30 members who play off 5 or less so I can't understand why we can't field a decent bracket for our club tourney.  To me, it is the pinnacle of the Summer golfing experience.

My position is that we should have a stroke play event at a minimum of 36 holes and a separate match play event with a 36 hole qualifier and a field of 32.  Open the field to anyone despite their age, i.e. High School team and younger players come one, come all.  I feel that anything less would be a hollow victory.

[Tim Bert]

Our format is exactly as you described.  Fortunately, I'm bad enough at golf that I don't have to worry about being able to take off on a Friday to compete.  

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Our tournament requires play during the week.  You must qualify via 36 hole stroke play to compete in the Championship which is a match play bracket of 16.

[RJ_Daley]

Ours is 2 day, Sat-Sun for all flights (6 flights) including champion flight.  Champs go off of blue tees, all else on member tees.  Of course champ is at scratch, with flights breaking at about 3 strokes until you get to 17 or 18,, then all the hacks above that unlimitted.  

But we also have a county amatuer on our same course that is 2-3 weeks later that is a 3 day, 6 flights, Blue tees for champs.  Quite often the county champ is from our top flight men's club champ.   We also have a separate 2 day seniors club champ and young guns tournament within 2 weeks of the regular club champ.  The senior is played at net within age brackets 50-55- 56-62 and super senior over 63.  The young guns are under 25s.  So, a little for everyone.  We have it good.  

[Mike McGuire]

Club/amateur championships should be match play. What are the odds of a 6 beating a 2 over a 54 hole medal play event? Why would the 6 even compete? If he wins he is a sandbagger - if he loses he wasted his time.   In match he has a chance and his handicap would not be questioned.

The USGA has 11 ?  amateur championships. Guess how many are medal play.

[C. Squier]

Our tournament requires play during the week.  You must qualify via 36 hole stroke play to compete in the Championship which is a match play bracket of 16.

Kyle, in all fairness, the horses in your championship flight are busier on the weekends.  Your CC has a better field than the BC Open.

CPS

[Pat Burke]

Course I grew up 
36 holes medal play for championship
top 16  qualified for championship flight
17-32 were the "A" flight competitors
the rest qualified in their handicap flights
All went to match play, early matches at a mutually agreed schedule (completed by a date)
semi finals and finals were on Labor Day weekend (all flights, Ladies and Juniors  followed by a huge
end of summer cook-out     It was a great final, and so many members watched the championship final,
that it had great atmosphere
If I remember correctly, I thought the club champ got free dues for the year.  Not sure if that is correct with amateur status rules of the day, but seem to remember that
It was a great format, which was supported by most of the membership

[Adam Clayman]

A.G.- The only possible suggested change would be to have the champ flight play 36 on Sunday. By forcing guys who have to work to take off work is not right nor fair.

At PG we use to have a match play tourney that required two weekends to complete with only the championship flight playing a 36 hole final match the second Sunday.

[Ash Towe]

Ours is very similar to Pat's.
All grades 18 hole strokeplay on Saturday same Sunday.
Top 16 in each grade play matchplay on weekends ( 18 holes ) a match till the final which is over 36 holes.
Flights,second 16 in each grade, same as above except final which is 18 holes.
No handicaps in each grade.
No complaints with this format.

[Chris Cupit]

A.G.

At the club I run ours is three days of stroke play including Friday after noon.  We have felt that most people who really want to compete can manage at least a half day off although I appreciate now that may not be the case.

On Friday Championship "A" plays from the tips and Championship "B" plays but from shorter tees.  (Anyone can step up and play in the "A" division if they want.  The "A" division cut off is indexes of 5.4 and below.  Above 5.4 can play in the "B" division--those guys know they can't win the whole thing but really like playing 54 holes).

Flights 1-3 play stroke play and for pace of play flights 4-6 play a Stableford Points Format. 

We also have a separate Match Play Championship that is very popular.

At the club I play at, it's 36 holes of stroke play on a weekend.  As a player, I'd prefer 54 holes.

Mike,

Does your match play club championship require a stroke play play-in for seeding?  Just curious about the time issue.  Match Play formats seem to require even more time off for the guys who advance deep into the tournament which seems to be a point A.G. is speaking to.

[Steve Lang]

 

At WCC we have always had both Match Play and Stroke Play Chamionships .

MAtch Play used to be over the month of may... everyone played together in flighted matches on first day.  Then you'd arrainge your next matches on designated courses until the finals weekend.  Now they cram it into one weekend, and it sucks

Stroke Play Championship always played in fall , and yes Friday -Sun for champ flight, sat-sun for other flights.  Never affected me, but I agree its unfair.

12-17 years ago the champ flight would be split after the first round, into the final champ flight and a "Presidents" flight.. to keep the scratch type guys interested if they bombed out a bit on first round... in those days each flight of 16 guys was typically a single index #,, the 2nd flight i mainly palyed in was always "6-7's",.. in 97 when i won the third flight, it was all 7-8's..

[Matthew Mollica]

My question to the Tree House is how many of you have a club championship tournament that involves weekday work-hours play?  What, exactly, is the format of your club's championship?

My Club works along very similar lines. With the exception that there is no weekday championship play. The last segment of our Championships may be more involved than yours too?

We initially play 2 stroke rounds Saturday then Sunday, with the top 24 players and ties as well as those 15 strokes of the leader going onto a further 18 holes stroke play. The third round is on the following Saturday. The top 8 gross scores after 54 holes go into a knock-out match-play format. Staged on the Sunday, then the next Saturday, Sunday, 18 hole match play between 1 v 8, 2 v 7 and so on, until a 36 hole final between the last 2 men standing.

We've never had an issue with the lesser grades providing a gross score which is anywhere near a contender for Club champion.

We would never schedule Weekday play for such an important event either.

Matthew

[JMEvensky]

We have a stroke play and a match play.The match play winner gets their name on the wall and is considered Club Champion.

The stroke play is 36 holes on Saturday and Sunday.Anyone can play for the championship,regardless of handicap.Everyone else plays flighted by handicap and from forward tees.

The match play is done with qualifying on a Saturday(low 15 and defending champ) and 2 matches on Sunday.The semi's are the next Saturday and the finals the next Sunday.The whole thing is played over 2 weekends.

We get a lot of complaints about "tying up the golf course" for just a few guys.

Unfortunately,it's just the way of the world now.Most "golfers" just want to get out of the house for 4 hours and play with their friends.Ask them if they're interested in playing in the club tournament and they look at you like you're from another planet.

[Brian_Sleeman]

At my old club, here's how it worked:

If you were interested in the championship flight, you played 36 holes of qualifying the weekend before Labor Day weekend.  The low 15 qualified and the defending champ was also thrown in.

Labor Day weekend saw three days of match play for championship flight (16 players, with semifinals and finals on the last day), and three days of match play for all other flights (grouped by handicap, scratch matches - 8 players per flight).  The participation is tremendous and the championship match of the championship flight always sees 200-300 spectators.

[Jim_Kennedy]

A.G.,
Small membership at Hotchkiss.
We have a Saturday 18 hole stroke play qualifier (gross scoring, play anytime that day w/another member).
Low 8 scores move on to the 'championship' flight where it's match play, 18 holes, gross.
We use the handicaps of the remaining field to determine our 'first' flight winner. 

[Dave_Miller]

A little input, please:

My club has instituted the following format for the club tournament.

1. A three-day stroke-play format for the championship flight of the club tournament, with the flight open to anyone and played at scratch. 

2. Play in the championship flight begins at 1:00 on Friday, and continues on Saturday and Sunday.

3. All other flights are by handicaps, and play two days, Saturday and Sunday.

4. The "club champion" will be the winner of the championship flight, regardless of gross scores in the other flights.

I am simply unable to blow off work on Friday(s) to play.  It's impossible.  Since I am excluded from competing for the club championship, I elected not to play.  I expressed my disappointment in the fact that in order to be the club champion the two requirements are that you have to play really good golf AND be able to take Friday afternoon off, but got nowhere.

My question to the Tree House is how many of you have a club championship tournament that involves weekday work-hours play?  What, exactly, is the format of your club's championship?

Thanks in advance.

AG:
Charles River is also a 54 hole Club Championship played on Saturday and Sunday.  18 holes on Saturday; 18 holes on Sunday AM then a cut to the low 8 players and those 8 play another 18 holes on Sunday afternoon.  All played at scratch.
No flights and no handicaps at all.  That is handled by another tournament known as the President's cup.
Best
Dave

[Sean_A]

Most clubs in the UK have a stroke play and matchplay championship.  Every club is different for deciding who the club champion is.  At my previous club the champion was decided on matchplay, but the stroke play champion was an important trophy as well.  The stroke play incorporated a low nett and gross champion over 36 holes - it works well though I always thought it should be run over 2 days with a cut rather than 36 on a day.  The club championship field is the 15 low qualifiers from the May Medal plus last year's champion.  The matchplay draw wasn't seeded so a 5-7 type capper could sneak through and win if the draw was kind and a few big guns beat up on each other.  Finals day incorpoarates all the summer knock out events on the same day - sort of a big golf festival with loads of silver on offer.  I think having the the two separate events is excellent with the matchplay being the club champion - otherwise very few people would sign up for it. 

I never liked the idea of loads of flights for the club championship.  Just let the best players play with no shots on offer.  There should be enough handicapped events throughout the year that loads more during the club championship shouldn't be necessary or desirable. 

Ciao

[Bill_McBride]

We play a goofy senior championship at Pensacola CC.  All the over 55s who sign up are flighted by handicap and play three 9-hole matches on a Friday.  If you lose your first match you play in the consolation.  You win 3 matches that day, you win your flight including senior championship.

Fast but flakey! 

[Michael Powers]

I have finally convinced our golf committee that the CC should be played at match play only as we have very few low handicaps in the club and stroke play makes no sense.  We run it over 2 weekends (which prevents many from participating).  18 holes of stroke play qualifying on Saturday, low 7 and the defending champ make up the draw, first round match play on Sunday, semi-finals the following Saturday, and the finals (
18 holes) on the 2nd Sunday. 

In an effort to run the event on one weekend, I have suggusted that we play 18 holes of stroke play qualifying with no excemption for the defending champ, low 4 qualify.  Then play the semis in the morning on Sunday, and the finals in the afternoon on Sunday.  I know 36 is a lot of golf, but it will only be for 2 players, and they can ride if they want. 

Does anyone out here run match play CC on one weekend?  I would hate to go back to 36 holes of stroke play.

[Carl Nichols]

Interesting to hear other formats, as our format is what I had thought was pretty standard --  36 hole stroke play qualifying; top 15 plus last year's champion are seeded into bracketed match play.  All rounds (qualifying and matches) on weekends.

[Patrick_Mucci]

A.G.,

I think those who are responsible for your club championship are irresponsible.

It's an undue burden to require golfers to play on Friday.

Some clubs hold their club championship over three weekends, which I also feel places an undue burden on some members.

Mike McGuire,

I think an argument can be made for both formats.

Some clubs play each format on alternate years.

Dave Miller,

I never heard of a club championship where handicaps where alloted.
Perhaps they were refering to flighting only.

I"ve also noticed that some clubs are holding their club championships later and later in the year.

Sometimes I believe that's because rounds take so long that members no longer want to be held up behind 5 and 6 hour rounds, and as such, push the tournament to a date far removed from heavy to moderate play during the "normal" season.   MD to LD.

[Jed Peters]

A.G.

Our tournament is exactly like your format. Although we also have a club match play championship as well.

I am on the tournament committee.

I am therefore responsible for the format.

According to Mr. Mucci, I am irresponsible.

Best,

Jed

[Bill Brightly]

I agree that stroke play club championships are wrong. Assuming the club has a few scratch golfers, stroke play gives the 5-6 handicaps no shot. We tried it for 3 years and switched back to 36-hole qualifying and 4 rounds of match play.

[A.G._Crockett]

A.G.

Our tournament is exactly like your format. Although we also have a club match play championship as well.

I am on the tournament committee.

I am therefore responsible for the format.

According to Mr. Mucci, I am irresponsible.

Best,

Jed

Jed,

I'm curious.  If a member came to you and said that they were simply unable to play on Friday, and asked you to justify a format that required the club champion to be able to do so, how would you reply?  Where is the fairness in that requirement, and what is the logic behind it?

As you craft your answer, keep in mind that I've been a member of this club for nearly 15 years, and have supported it through good times and bad.  I've paid my dues, literally and figuratively, and am excluded from a competition now that I've participated in for the entire time I've been a member.

I'm asking this in all seriousness.

A.G.