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Thomas MacWood

Re: Sideways Biarritz - Paging Jeff Brauer
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2008, 10:19:32 AM »
I believe that Travis used the SB/DP green at Stafford in Batavia, New York.  I'll have to check my sources.  He also should have one at Lookout Point in Ontario.

Columbia has one too.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Sideways Biarritz - Paging Jeff Brauer
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2008, 10:20:32 AM »
I would have thought the king of sideways Biarritz greens is North Berwick's 16th.  Mind you, aprt of the brilliance of that hole is how the oob is used.  The closer you get to oob the straighter the shot and hence more green space there is to use for the approach. 


#16 at North Berwick - I guess you'd have go call that one as much "Biarritz" as "Double Plateau" - in the classical template distinction - because down the centerline of the hole the green is set on about a 45 degree angle.

You are absolutely corrrect about the strategy of playing as far right as possible off the tee, and therefore close to the OB line, to get any kind of shot that comes in down the straight axis of the green.  What a brilliant hole!

Anthony Gray

Re: Sideways Biarritz - Paging Jeff Brauer
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2008, 12:39:33 PM »
  Please educate me. Where is the original Biarritz? Pictures?

paul cowley

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Re: Sideways Biarritz - Paging Jeff Brauer
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2008, 01:19:00 PM »
No Anthony....sometimes its best that men keep thier little secrets to themselves. ;)
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

paul cowley

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Re: Sideways Biarritz - Paging Jeff Brauer
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2008, 02:04:48 PM »
Paul:  If your "raised middle plateau" is as cool as the 18th green at Valhalla ... don't say I didn't warn you.  ;)

Tom the green is only the half of it....and it gets worse!

#15 is part of a series of four holes that were created in a 40 acre setting of faux ricefields...replete with levees, dyke's, canals and waterfilled and reclaimed ricefields......this from the same group that brought built you faux ruins, forts and other landforms that were created to give certain holes strategy and setting.

#15 is a true original....there has never been one like it before.

I call it the Cross and its bunkerless.

Envision that you are standing on a series of tees that are built on the top of a small flat topped levee that's 35 to forty feet wide....which stretches straight down the middle of the hole. The sides slope off sharply about 3 to 8 feet to the fairway below.
This levee terminates perpendicularly at another levee.

The green is draped across this terminus to the left of the intersection, and its front is in the corner that was created....its middle is astride the levee and its rear is down the back slope and beyond...thus creating the reverse biarritz.

I you look out again from the tee to the turn point you will see another crossing levee that extends entirely across the fairway...hence the "cross" naming, and it very effectively divides the landing area into four quadrants;

SE is blind to the green and you are also playing across the axis that goes from tee to green.

NE is better because of length and is semi blind.

SW is semi blind as well but you are playing directly into the reverse biarritz.

NW is great...no blindness and you are also aiming straight up through the green.

Its an interesting hole....straightforward geometric strategy in a cool setting.

Time will tell if others like it....... DLlll sure does.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 02:24:15 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Mike_Cirba

Re: Sideways Biarritz - Paging Jeff Brauer
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2008, 08:45:34 PM »
I believe that Travis used the SB/DP green at Stafford in Batavia, New York.  I'll have to check my sources.  He also should have one at Lookout Point in Ontario.

Columbia has one too.

Lakewood has a straight-on  Biarritz...only it's on the mid-length, uphill, par 4, 3rd hole.

I'm assuming that Travis built it during his re-do circa 1920.   I don't believe it's from the original Willie Norton course.