[Jay Flemma]

Go to conklin, because with the leaves changing and the full harvest moon rising over the 15th fairway, it's just gorgeous.  It's a tough walk and its quirky, but it's cheap, you'll get done ni 4 hrs and its 12 miles from hiawatha.  Pass on Mark Twain, it's a step below enjoie and conklin and two below hiawatha.

[JNC Lyon]

Mark Twain has those great Ross greens and the price is right.  Plus, I hear the course is being sold so it may not be there much longer.  I haven't played Conklin but it's hard to believe it can have an island green and still beat a fun, hilly Ross course.  Soaring Eagles is VERY quirky but also a lot of fun.  It's one of those courses you play and think there's no way it could be good, but then walk away realizing it had some good holes and was lots of fun.

[Ronald Montesano]

JNC,

I agree with you wholeheartedly.  Conklin occupies similar property to Mark Twain, but Twain was laid out by a master.  Do you remember the green on the short, par five, third hole?  You can putt up the slope, away from the hole, and have it finish back at the hole.  The very next hole, the apparently flattish fourth, has the same type of bedeviling putting surface.

Conklin is beloved by a few on this forum but I didn't quite get it the one time I played it.  It has some nice features and some tremendous holes, but the boomerang par fours eventually got to me.  I imagine that if I played it a few more times, I'd come to appreciate it more.  I did appreciate the crazy quebequois who were there for a week of golf and partying.

I also admit that the absolutely bizarre 18th at Hiawatha clouded my appreciation for the links.  Ironically, it came after a deftly-struck three iron from the tips on 17 that almost went in...what a great par three hole.  I'll say that conditioning at Hiawatha is above that of Mark Twain; if a corporation got hole of Mark Twain, the locals might lose their beloved muni but the conditioning would certainly rise.

[JNC Lyon]

Yeah, I remember 3 and 4 as being really good holes on top of that mountain, 3 especially.  Mark Twain's condition was always pretty good for a muni I thought, and it is actually worthy of some study.  Like every Ross course in upstate NY, it needs to take out some pine trees, but it is tons of fun overall.  The greens I remember the most are 5, 7, 11, and 13, but I remember 4 being particularly severe as well.

[Mike_Cirba]

Go to conklin, because with the leaves changing and the full harvest moon rising over the 15th fairway, it's just gorgeous.  It's a tough walk and its quirky, but it's cheap, you'll get done ni 4 hrs and its 12 miles from hiawatha.  Pass on Mark Twain, it's a step below enjoie and conklin and two below hiawatha.

Jay, Jay, Jay...

(is there a smiley that just sadly shakes his head side to side?  )

Conklin is a lovely, if challenging site with some unusual holes and a few beauts but some real clunkers, as well.   High on the visual acuity scale, but the devil is definitely lurking in the details there!

Hiawatha is mostly a very good course.   A few of the holes along the lower level are questionable, but things hum along quite well until the absolutely horrendous 17th and 18th holes.   Absolutely horrid, and I believe we've had this discussion back a few years ago. 

En_Joie, which began life as a really good, very affordable muni that hosted a pro tournament has since been Dyed, and Hurdzaned, and Postelwaited, and shoot...I don't even recall the last archie thru there, but right now it's as well-integrated and cohesively unified as Iraq.      Plus, it never was much more than a Doak 3 or so, given the low-lying, mostly boring land and the plethora of water hazards.

There is more interesting, mentally-stimulating architecture at Mark Twain and Soaring Eagles than the three you mentioned by a factor of 10. 

You'll also probably play MT and SE with the same ball, and I'll bet that you'll lose more balls on any nine holes of the other three than either of the 18's at Twain or Soaring Eagles.

Keep it up, Jay...and I'm going to send you back down here to Beechtree for some remedial study.     

[Dan Herrmann]

I still think the Finger Lakes are the greatest undiscovered area for golf left in the NE USA.  No - not for the golf that's there today, but what could be there in the future...  That drive along Seneca Lake on NY14 is pretty amazing and there's gotta be some great land for golf up there.   

I don't know anything about soils in the region, but I do know that it's all glacier made.

I'd love to see the Cornell boys do something someday up there.  Yes, winters are a  bear - the Finger Lakes can even cause their own mini-lake effect snow squalls, but he summer and autumn can be amazing.

[Jay Flemma]

The 18th at Hiawatha is fine, Mike.  And there's nothing wrong with 17 either.  I never said conklin was pinehurst, but it's in better shape than Mark Twain, which has sadly seen its star long fade.  All you guys that like Mid-Pines tell me I'm too picky when I say I don't like it,  well Conklin holds that spot for me that M-P holds for them.

[Roger Tufts]

Hey guys

Brad will give a full report with pictures when he gets back to Boston I am sure... He took plenty of them.

I'll take a quick study break here to talk about the weekend in brief

Saturday morning we played Hiawatha... my 2nd time and Brad's first. Played the first 2-3 holes in the morning Susquehanna fog but once it cleared the day warmed up to about 70 and was beautiful. The course kind of ate us for lunch (attributed to the drought in good weather I've had at Cornell and lack of golf...) but is great and I am sure I will get back there many times in my next few years at Cornell.

Sunday we planned on playing 36 at Leatherstocking, but due to the Red Sox game going extra innings and us being die-hard Sox fans, we felt that going to sleep at 2:00am, waking up at 5:30am and driving 2 and a half hours to play golf twice then drive back would be a little much, and we didn't feel that the 2.5 hour drive was necessary for the one round with all the golf we had closer to us. That being said, we played Cornell again and both enjoyed it. I think Brad was happy to get another crack at it after the first time he played it the day before. He seems to agree with me that the course needs some serious bunker work, but otherwise is a hidden RTJ Gem and his real birthplace.

Monday we woke up bright and early again to drive up to Lafayette Hills. The course was completely open and we had a great time flying around the 18. It certainly gives plenty of opportunity for birdies as many of those greens are accessible. I think us combined played the 4 par-5s in something around 6 under.

After Lafayette we drove up to Yahnundasis. The foliage only added to our great experience with the course, and both of us loved it. The old style mixed with huge elevation changes and very sloped greens was absolutely awesome. I think Brad shares my opinion that we would love another crack at it when the greens aren't aerated. Otherwise, it was a great day (weather was clear and 77 degrees) and a great overall weekend of golf.

Tomorrow Brad's making it over to Seven Oaks... if I can fit in into my class schedule I'll be joining him there as well.

[JNC Lyon]

Let me know if and when you are going to be at Seven Oaks.  I'm always up for a round on the Colgate course!

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