$4.8M Doak muni in Denver opens early next year...

[Tony Gorski]

For those interested, here's an article from a Denver newspaper on Doak's $4.8M "diamond in the rough"...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/sep/21/diamond-in-the-rough/

Amazing change from the old military course that it replaced.  Looking forward to playing it next spring.

[Mike_Cirba]

Thanks Tony..

As I mentioned on another thread, I'm more interested to see what they are doing here architecturally (and otherwise) than any of the large budget/high profile projects out there.

From my perspective, if this kind of thing isn't the future of golf, or at least public golf that reaches the vast majority of today and tomorrow's golfers, then there isn't much of a future beyond the rich playgrounds.    The CCFAD model is not going to survive long term.

[Doug Wright]

I'm a little disappointed that they moved the price point from $30, which is what I heard at the outset of the project, to $40-$50. Yes the latter is the going rate for some other better local munies like  Murphy Creek and cheaper than others like Fossil Trace but the definition of "affordable" public golf for the masses gets a little skewed as the price point goes up. I suppose there's always City Park, Park Hill and Wellshire for the more price constrained consumer.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm a little disappointed that they moved the price point from $30, which is what I heard at the outset of the project, to $40-$50. Yes the latter is the going rate for some other better local munies like  Murphy Creek and cheaper than others like Fossil Trace but the definition of "affordable" public golf for the masses gets a little skewed as the price point goes up. I suppose there's always City Park, Park Hill and Wellshire for the more price constrained consumer.

Doug,

I didn't notice that.   Any price hike is indeed disappointing.

[Tony Gorski]

I agree that the move from $30 to $40/50 is tough, but to keep the maintenance quality of Fox Hollow or Fossil Trace or Murphy Creek (all in the city area), a $30 price point seems difficult to impossible.  City Park and Wellshire are good muni tracks, but their upkeep can be dismal at times.  So do you go for affordability and give up some on the quality? 

[Tom_Doak]

Doug:

I believe the price point had been $39 before they closed the course, though there were some discounts offered during the week.  So they really haven't upped the price at all, except for nonmembers, and they held that to $50.  There are also special rates for juniors, and we have been trying to convince them to let the juniors play our short course for free, instead of charging them $5 or $10.

[Peter Zarlengo]

On my last day working there they came around and took pictures of me building a bunker. I'm not surprised they didn't the photos of me though... the grown-in course looks much better.

Commonground will be a really fun course to play day in and day out for the Denver golfing public. And like the article mentioned, its amazing how secluded you feel from two busy streets to the east & south, and a large housing development to the west & north.

There are some really good holes out there, with some really fun shots to hit. I was pleased to see how well the greens evolved and came out.

4.8 million was not the number I heard all summer though, it was a good bit lower. Maybe Tom can chime in or Adam & Mike can remember something I dont.

And if you're reading Adam, check out the comments made in the article about the sixth hole  

[George Pazin]

From the article:

"He's an artist with a bulldozer."

Mate, on course designer Iverson

Look out, Ron Whitten III might be uncovering another Burbeck in 70 years....

I'm envious of any city with a Doak public course.

[Doug Wright]

Doug:

I believe the price point had been $39 before they closed the course, though there were some discounts offered during the week.  So they really haven't upped the price at all, except for nonmembers, and they held that to $50.  There are also special rates for juniors, and we have been trying to convince them to let the juniors play our short course for free, instead of charging them $5 or $10.

Tom,

Fair enough though I don't recall Mira Vista's rack rate being anywhere near $39.  Maybe I always got the $25 special. Agree that letting the kids play the short course for free would be great; many will be playing with adults, like yours truly, who would gladly pay something for the privilege.

[Tom_Doak]

Peter:

I was surprised to hear the number $4.8 million as well, since the budget from the beginning was $4 million.  That original number didn't include the $300,000 paid by the neighboring developer to create more drainage detention within the golf course property, but I don't know where the other $500,000 was spent.

Still, for perspective, we should forward this to Joel Stewart, who is still trying to figure out how the re-do at Harding Park cost $25 million or whatever it was.

[Mark_Fine]

I am surprised at the number as well but I guess it was a complete renovation of everything.  Was irrigation part of it?  I was just in Denver last week and wish I had time to go see it.   It sounds great from the article.

I did walk the Wellshire Golf Course to begin preparation of a restoration analysis.   It is a 1926 Donald Ross design and has some great potential.  I am just finishing up some rough estimates but I believe it would not be too expensive to really notch up this golf course and give the public golfer a true Ross experience.  If you played it now you would not find much left. 

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:  The new irrigation system was $1.6 million of it ... that's pretty much standard on any course nowadays.

And yes, it was a total redo ... new routing, new greens, new tees, new bunkers (only about 55 of them), new irrigation pond, new pump system, new drainage (not too much required), new cart paths (actually we recycled the asphalt that was there), and we transplanted lots of the trees that were there as well.

[Eric_Terhorst]

I'm a little disappointed that they moved the price point from $30, which is what I heard at the outset of the project, to $40-$50.

I don't understand this "disappointment."  In the Chicago area, we would be thrilled to have a public course with an interesting design at any price below $100.  There's only one (Edit:  Leaving aside Shivas favorite Jans National, which is in a class all its own) that I can think of within 30 miles of the northern suburbs (Keith Foster's Shepherd's Crook).



Were I a Denver-area public course golfer anxiously awaiting opening of this course, I would be disappointed by the LOW price of these greens fees.  If these fees are combined with 8-minute tee time intervals, you have a recipe for minimum 4:45, wait on every shot weekend rounds.   Which is worse for the future of golf?  Higher fees or routine 5-hour rounds?

[Mark_Fine]

Tom,
Thanks for the update.  I will make sure I see it next time I am out. 

[Joel_Stewart]

Still, for perspective, we should forward this to Joel Stewart, who is still trying to figure out how the re-do at Harding Park cost $25 million or whatever it was.

I guess Tom you are not spending the money correctly or you didn't have to deal with Tim Finchem and the PGA Tour Architectural Services.