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Bart Bradley

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Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« on: September 29, 2008, 10:16:27 PM »
to a golf course?

Pat Mucci asked me in another thread how often quirk has been added to a an existing course.  I couldn't think of any.  Can you?

Bart

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2008, 10:20:53 PM »
Bart,

I'm sure there are some examples, but, I'm also sure that they're the exception to the rule.

David_Madison

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Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2008, 10:41:24 PM »
If you count restorations, wouldn't there be a fair amount? Pine Needles comes to mind in that regard.

Bart Bradley

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Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2008, 10:43:33 PM »
If you count restorations, wouldn't there be a fair amount? Pine Needles comes to mind in that regard.

David:

Can you tell me how they added quirk?

Bart

David_Madison

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Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2008, 06:13:34 AM »
Bart:

The recapturing pieces of greens, the restorations of some of the slopes around the greens, and the restoration of some of the greenside bunkering has led to a lot of shots that bring in the ground game in unusual ways. The new back piece of the 9th green that slopes away would be one such example. The approach shot is typically very short, but it's a pretty unusual and definitely uncomfortable shot when the green is firm and running. There's a par-3 on the back I believe that has a greenside bunker to the right of the green. The bunker is above the putting surface, there's a small swale between the bunker and the green, and the green runs away. There's a number of ways to play the shot, but it takes a lot of imagination to figure it all out. That's just two of a whole bunch of newly found uncomfortable quirky situations shots that likely were there when Ross designed the course but that over time were blanded out.

David

Rich Goodale

Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2008, 09:37:53 AM »
There has been a lot of quirkification on many of the great links courses of Britain and Ireland.  The recent work of Hawtree at Lahinch is perhaps the most extenisve of the lot, and the redo of the 17th at Birkdale for this year's Open the most viewed, but Turnberry 16-18), Carnoustie (3) and The Old Course (back tees on 3 and 14) also immediately spring to mind.  In general the idea of preserving the architectural "legacy" of a course is much more an American than European fixation.

David Stamm

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Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2008, 09:50:47 AM »
I believe the blind nature of the 8th at The Maidstone was added later and it was not originally intended.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2008, 09:58:24 AM »
I can't think of any, but would wager that in the US, there has been a lot of quirk added when courses decide to carve out and sell a portion of the course for condos, or the like, thus shortening the course with snap doglegs, etc.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Doug Siebert

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Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2008, 01:49:35 AM »
Jeff,

Good point.  There's a muni in town here that was bought from a developer as a nine hole course when he went bankrupt, and the city added another nine on some land it bought.  The new nine is a great course, and really contrasts with the occasionally narrow and quirky original nine.

Some of the quirk was due to the developer apparently not realizing the size of required playing corridors (made worse with today's technology) and but one extremely quirky 270 yard par 4 with a slight dogleg right was created from the ashes of a 350 yard 90* right dogleg.  Apparently whoever bought the property in the corner of that dogleg didn't realize what they were getting into, and didn't like all the golf balls raining down on their house from people trying to cut the corner.

Its a really weird hole now, its driveable in theory, but with OB right, long left and water left, a super steep uphill slope for the last 60 yards and a small tabletop green, its not a particularly high percentage shot though I did bust a 1 iron up there from the 255 tees once during a scramble.  It is interesting to see all the different strategies people will try out on that hole (I gave up trying other stuff and now just hit a lazy 7 iron off the tee for the only flat lie and SW up the hill)

The old green from this hole is now used for a 105 yard par 3 that's pretty boring.  I wish they'd rebuilt that green and done something crazy with it, a short hole with a big flat green is such a wasted opportunity!
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Tom Huckaby

Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2008, 10:01:59 AM »
Peacock Gap - San Rafael, CA.

Forrest Richardson took a pretty basic blah course and quirked the heck out of it.

http://www.peacockgapgc.com/golf/index.html

TH
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 10:13:26 AM by Tom Huckaby »

Anthony Gray

Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2008, 10:16:00 AM »
  17th green at Royal Birkdale.

SPDB

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Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2008, 11:33:01 AM »
Without having the thread devolve into bitterness, I would be interested in the opinion of the resident cognoscenti whether the mound to the left of the green on Merion #14 would be an example of added quirk.

I know Wayne has said that this feature was not part of Flynn's redesign, but he has also said that all 18 greens (and this feature is somewhat integrated into 14 green) are original.

What gives?

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2008, 06:55:48 PM »

I believe the blind nature of the 8th at The Maidstone was added later and it was not originally intended.

David.

What concrete evidence do you have to support that statement ?

Cliff Hamm

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Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2008, 07:30:50 PM »
Would love a definition of quirk.  Seems to me that quirk can be good and can also be quite awful.  Does TPC Boston qualify as quirk or is it just a renovation that is more 'traditional' than the original design?

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2008, 07:33:45 PM »
Cliff,

As in "obscenity" you may not be able to define it, but, you know it when you see it.

Cliff Hamm

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Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2008, 07:48:14 PM »
Patrick...that is true.  But is it quirk when you get a hole, for example, that has a 90 degree dogleg at 200 yards and is a 450 yard par 4?  Does quirk mean different?  If so, again can be good and can be bad.

Bart Bradley

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Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 07:55:34 PM »
Cliff:

I think it is hard to always differentiate between quirk and contrivance.  I think sometimes only time will tell the difference.....

Bart

Bill_McBride

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Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2008, 10:39:43 PM »
Peacock Gap - San Rafael, CA.

Forrest Richardson took a pretty basic blah course and quirked the heck out of it.

http://www.peacockgapgc.com/golf/index.html

TH

You took the peacock right out of my mouth.  There is some wonderful / unexpected quirk on that golf course, where before there was flatland muckiness.  Forrest gives a clinic in 18 holes.  Every owner of a boring flat course should spend a day at Peacock Gap and see what can be done.  Some of those greens are borderline OTT but there is nothing boring about the Gap.   ;D

Brad Tufts

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Re: Are there any examples where "QUIRK" has been added...
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2008, 11:35:42 PM »
Cliff, I think so, TPC Boston immediately came to mind.  Gil Hanse actually shortened the course overall during the redo...

Their model was officially The Country Club, and one of the co-designers, Brad Faxon, hails from a Ross course....they both have quirk in spades.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....