Indian Creek CC - Miami, FL

[Jonathan McCord]

Looking for anything on this exclusive Miami club.  What is its history?  I know its a William Flynn design, from the 20's, but is there anything else?  Can't seem to find much in the search results on this site, or the web for that matter.  Any information would be greatly appreciated.  Pictures would also be great.

[ChipOat]

There has been at least one thread in the past; check w/Wayne Morrison as the resident Flynn co-expert along w/Tom Paul

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here's one thread:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,15732.0.html

Perhaps Wayne can repost the pictures.

[wsmorrison]

I'll post some photos, but first I wanted to demonstrate one of the great visual deceptions I have ever experienced in golf.  Consider the view from the tee of the 6th at Indian Creek CC, 445 yard par 4



It looks as though there is a field of large bunkers between the tee and the green influencing most players to play safely away to the right from what is actually the ideal line 210 yard carry over the first four bunkers.  There is a very helpful turbo boost if you take the bold line over the bunkers, to a landing area that appears to be covered with sand.  That turbo boost is most welcome on this stern test.  Playing to the right results in the fairway slope kicking the ball right with little forward progress leading to an awkward approach angle to the green over a menacing bunker.


A view from the left rough approximately 200 yards off the back tee, with the left to right fairway slope evident.  You can begin to see the real distance differential between the first 4 bunkers and the remaining three bunkers on a diagonal.



The orientation of the bunkers and their toplines confuse the eye into thinking there isn't much of a yardage differential.  In reality it is 150 yards from the first bunker complex to the next two bunkers set on a 45* angle.  It is 38 yards from the last fairway bunker to the start of the green.  The last bunker greenside right is on a diagonal as is the right side of the green.  There is a 1-2 club difference between carrying the bunker on the left side versus the farther right side.



Here is an aerial view of the hole.  Hopefully these photos will give some indication to the visual miscues Flynn designed on this hole and elsewhere around Indian Creek.  Flynn was the best I've ever seen at using angles and toplines to present visual distance deception.  Standing on the 6th tee for the first time, it is nearly impossible to perceive the ideal line of play off the tee.  Even when the caddie tells you what to do, your eyes deceive you, which can cause misplays.  It is a fascinating design feature.

There is a false front to the green with short grass surrounds that allows balls to spin back off the green or roll into the bunker.

[Bill_McBride]

Wayne, the illusion is compounded by the dastardly angle of the tee in photo one. 
Aren't architects supposed to line up the tees with the proper angle? 

[Craig Disher]

Wayne,
You might remember that this hole was a near perfect match with Flynn's 14th hole at Manor. The hole was on very flat ground but the mid-fairway bunkers were slightly raised and there was a slope behind them that tended towards the middle of the fairway. This photo is from 1940. By the 1960s, pines had been planted near the bunkers and the left fairway edge had been moved to the right.

[wsmorrison]

Craig,

Yes, of course I remember...now that you reminded me    I double checked and it is in the Flynn book.  Alas, that hole today looks nothing like the Flynn, right?  Can you post a modern aerial of what it was replaced with?

See you next week.  Sorry, no smalls...you're going to have to gain some weight and fit in a medium 

[wsmorrison]

One of the great clubhouses in all of golf.  Designed by Maurice Fatio, it also has one of the great locker rooms in all of golf.



From a 1932 Golf Illustrated

[Craig Disher]

The only similarities between the 2 holes are the length - about the same - and the number of bunkers. Flynn's angles of play are all gone. On the right of the fairway running nearly the entire length of the hole is a large berm that hides the course from the main road. To someone who remembers the old course, it looks very strange.



I posted most of the photos in the other Indian Creek thread. You can use them for this thread if needed.

I can't live in a medium - the only lag in my swing would be the jacket catching up with the rest of my body.   

[paul cowley]

my favorite course

[Bill_McBride]

Jonathan, great to see you post and hope all is well with you.  Where are you these days and what are you doing?

Cheers,
Bill

[Jonathan McCord]

Mr. McBride,

I'm doing very well.  Things up here in Minnesota are slowing down quite a bit.  I graduated from Ferris back in Dec. of 07 and started up here at Spring Hill Golf Club in Feb. of this year.  It's been a gorgeous summer, which followed a slow start!  But whats to expect in the frozen north.

Just been doing a little research on a place to spend the winter months and thought that GCA may fill me in on ICCC a bit more.

How are things in Pensacola?

Thanks for all the info that everyones offered!  Indian Creek sounds like one heck of a place.

[Carl Nichols]

Are there other highly regarded courses from the Indian Creek era close to Miami (i.e., south of Ft. Lauderdale)?

[ChipOat]

LaGorce CC; Jack Grout's winter job and, ultimately, full time head pro after Scioto; Don Shula's first club in Miami until he got into Indian Creek.

Nicklaus used to take the occasional lesson from Grout at LaGorce in the early 60's until he bought his home in North Palm Beach and sent the car/driver to Miami Beach and brought his mentor to his practice tee at Lost Tree.