[Anthony Fowler]

I have never had a chance to play the red course (it's hard to justify not playing the black), but I am intrigued by images of the 13th hole.  For those who have played it, what do you think?  What are the best options off the tee?  How does it compare to some of its neighbors on the black?  This hole seems to offer a type of strategy that the black does not.  Did Tilly's black course contain any elements like this that have been lost?


http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=farmingdale,+ny&ie=UTF8&ll=40.753007,-73.459246&spn=0.002077,0.003718&t=h&z=18

[Sam Maryland]

every time I play the hole I try to figure out what the best option is ;-)

to the left between the bunkers and trees is the shortest route and leaves the easiest shot into the green - but obviously it's not the easiest drive.

out to the right plays a fair bit longer but is a lot roomier.

what I usually do is aim at the bunkers and hope I don't hit it straight!

SM

[David Mulle]

I always try to go left. 

In my opinion, the key to that hole is the shape of the green. 

If you go right (which as Sam points out is the easier tee shot), you have to carry a bunker on approach shot to a very shallow green.  If you go long, it is a tricky pitch/chip given the contours of the green.

If you go left, the green really opens up for you and it is a much, much easier shot.  You don't have to come up over the bunker so coming up short is not a bad play and the green is much deeper when you come at it from the left.

I think it is a great hole and I cannot think a hole of the black course that

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Due to the ongoing architectural destruction of the Black, I believe that the Red is only a slight notch below the Black.  And the Red is a fun and pretty difficult challenge.
    Holes 1, 8, 10, 14, 15, 18 are monstrously difficult
    Hole #7 is the best short hole in the entire complex
    Hole #13 is easily the best hole in the entire complex
          There used to be a picture in the clubhouse that showed the right fairway
           being about 50 yards wide and the left fairway at its current 20 yard width.
           When you play the hole you can appreciate how brilliantly the angles work.

[Jeff Doerr]

For those who know, what is the formation at the top of the image?

Thanks!

[D_Malley]

why do all the greenside bunkers look so far from the greens?

[Mike Sweeney]

For those who know, what is the formation at the top of the image?

Thanks!

I think that is where they test grow different grasses.

In addition, I am guessing that the greens have gotten smaller over the years on The Red so the greenside bunkering looks far away. Maybe after next years 2009 Open they will do some work on The Red.

[Kyle Harris]

For those who know, what is the formation at the top of the image?

Thanks!

I think that is where they test grow different grasses.

In addition, I am guessing that the greens have gotten smaller over the years on The Red so the greenside bunkering looks far away. Maybe after next years 2009 Open they will do some work on The Red.

That's where a small splinter group of the Tillinghast Association who believe the Red Course is superior to the Black Course hold their ceremonies. Membership is easy, but the ordeal to join is rigorous, including a vow of silence for a day and a day of fixing ball marks on the entire Bethpage facility.

[Phil McDade]

Great-looking hole!

Question:

What's the relative risk value in going left vs. going right off the tee? As Sam suggests, going right makes the second shot riskier, as the green flattens out and you have to carry a bunker, plus trouble off the green, bringing bogey into play.

Is that a greater risk than missing with the tee shot left? I can see the potential for a punch-out from the woods lining the left fairway, or the difficulty of a long bunker shot if the passle of bunkers catches the tee shot.

Going left certainly looks like the better route for a potential birdie. But does it also lead to the greater potential for a bogey or worse?

It looks like a great risk-reward hole. Yardage?

[Anthony Fowler]

Thanks for all the comments so far.  I am surprised to hear people say that the best play is left.  That's not at all obvious from looking at the images.  David, how far do you hit it off the tee, and what does that usually leave you for an approach?  I would have just tried to blast a driver at the crop circle and take my chances from there.

Hole #13 is easily the best hole in the entire complex

This is a pretty bold statement, but I don't doubt your sincerity.  IMO, there aren't many holes in the world better than 4, 5, and 17 on the black course.

[Jeff Doerr]

For those who know, what is the formation at the top of the image?

Thanks!

I think that is where they test grow different grasses.

In addition, I am guessing that the greens have gotten smaller over the years on The Red so the greenside bunkering looks far away. Maybe after next years 2009 Open they will do some work on The Red.

That's where a small splinter group of the Tillinghast Association who believe the Red Course is superior to the Black Course hold their ceremonies. Membership is easy, but the ordeal to join is rigorous, including a vow of silence for a day and a day of fixing ball marks on the entire Bethpage facility.

Very nice --- Are you a member 

[Sam Maryland]

Thanks for all the comments so far.  I am surprised to hear people say that the best play is left.  That's not at all obvious from looking at the images.  David, how far do you hit it off the tee, and what does that usually leave you for an approach?  I would have just tried to blast a driver at the crop circle and take my chances from there.

Hole #13 is easily the best hole in the entire complex

This is a pretty bold statement, but I don't doubt your sincerity.  IMO, there aren't many holes in the world better than 4, 5, and 17 on the black course.

the left is the 'shortest' play, and leaves an easier second shot if you hit it in the fairway.  but it's a tight drive with trees left and the obvious bunkers if you hit it a little right.  a good drive and you can hit W to 8 into the green depending (say 120-145yds).

the right plays much futher and can make as much as a 4 club difference hitting into the green...and the drive is still no bargain.  flair it a little right and you have a long shot out of the rough.  pull it a hair and you will be in the bunker.

reasonable birdie chance from left.  very low birdie chance going right.

SM

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

My opinion on the 13th is bold, but accurate.  The Black has several true world class holes--4,5,8, 15,16
I 've played many NY Opens on the Black, Assistants Championships, fun golf,ect.
On the Red I've played 15 or 16 LI Opens, a number of Assistants Championships.
Every year in the tournaments, when we reach the 13th, a discussion always occurrs about the architectural merits of the 13th.  Oftentimes, I start the conversation.  Almost always, the consensus is that this is the best hole in the complex.  The 4th and 15th on Black always get a strong nod, but fall short of the 13th's reverence.  The need to widen out the right fairway always is discussed.  I always hit down the left because the rough in the trees is very thin and a punch and run will make the green.  Over the years, I've made almost as many birdies as on 16, but quite a few poorly timed bogeys.

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