Another heathland course?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I stumbled across Crosland Heath near Huddersfield on Google Earth. From the aerial it appears to have heather. Does anyone know it? Is it actually heathland? The web site mentions that it is a MacKenzie course. Web site: http://www.croslandheath.co.uk/  Post code for Google Earth HD4 7AF

[Neil_Crafter]

Mark
Yes, it appears to be a Mackenzie from what we have been able to find out. Anthony Spalding in the Guardian of 20 July 1914 described a number of Mackenzie courses in that article and said that:

"An even more striking illustration of this principle is found at Crossland Heath, a new course on the Huddersfield moors. The main natural feature of the course being a large quarry, from which radiates nine holes. One of them is not unlike the 5th at Brancaster, only more fearsome. To construct some of the greens an aerial railway was necessary, and the cost was proportionately greater, though one cannot give figures, as the constructional work is still unfinished."

Never heard of an aerial railway being used in building a course before, but there you go. As to the heather aspect, I'm really not sure.
cheers Neil

[Jon Wiggett]

Mark,

I know Crossland Heath quite well although its been a year or two since I last played it. It does have a lot of heather and also has a number of holes that are played into or across old disused quarries. Something discussed here recently are short par 3s. Crossland has one at around the 100 yards which is a little devil.

I would recommend anyone to play it although you need to be prepared for the odd firework going off during your backswing due to them testing at the standard firework factory down below the 1st green.

Dean Stokes from this site also knows Crossland Heath and might chip in.

[Dean Stokes]

Thanks for the lead in Jon. Did we ever do battle there in the CH Junior Open Championship???

I do believe I have photos somewhere of a days golf at Crossland Heath - woolly hats and ski gloves present!

It is a good golf course, complete with plenty of heather. Set on high ground above Huddersfield, Yorkshire, there are some of the nicest views around in summer ( on a clear day)!

The wind will usually blow and there is quite a bit of evelation change.

As Jon said, there are several holes that make good use of an old quarry. #1 is an uphill par 5 where the bold (or just long) can have a go in two, the last 60 yards being over the quarry. #2 is approx 130 yards across the quarry to a smaillish green. I think you then use the quarry again for the last few holes.

It always used to be in good shape and although it's never going to be a top 100 course, I always enjoyed a day golfing at Crosland Heath.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Thanks for the feedback, not only about the abundant heather but also about the strengths of the course. I'll have to play it.

[Neil_Crafter]

Mark
Crosland Heath is another Mackenzie course that was not included in the lists of Mackenzie designed courses in either of Doak Scott Haddock, Hawtree or Cornish & Whitten. We have added substantially to these lists now.

Hope you get to play it!
Neil

[Andy Levett]

Mark,
I suspect it’s a hidden gem.
I played Fixby  this summer and my partners from Crosland Heath insisted their course was the better course in the area.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Andy, That's interesting. I like Fixby. Maybe we should meet up at CH. Mark.

[Andy Levett]

Mark, yes, CH has got to be worth a look. I'll IM some dates.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Andy and I played Crosland Heath today. It is great fun. Yes, there is abundant heather, and some gorse, but I would describe it as moorland rather than heathland. The quarry holes are terrific. Our weather has been dreadfully wet this year, but the condition of the course was admirable for this time of year, with only a few artificial tees and no temporary greens. The real bargain is that the visitor's green fee is £25. The Secretary confirmed what the Strokesaver says, that this is a MacKenzie course (1914). The routing is admirable in the way it often brings holes together from different parts of the round. I can't imagine why they needed an overhead railway. Putting surfaces not outlandish, but they slope more than appearances suggest. Many greens of the armchair variety. Umpteen dead elephants around the course where, no doubt, surface stones were piled together.

I took a bundle of photos and - if I can only find the lead to connect camera and laptop - I hope to post some pictures in the future.

However, here' a quick thumbnail:

1. 475/5 Gently uphill with green hidden from view until the last moment - it's then that you discover it is a narrow little affair on the far side of a seriously deep gully, with worse should you miss on the right.
2. 153/3 Glorious all-or-nothing short hole across an abyss with little or no room for error left or right.
3. 506/5 Blind drive over gentle rise to fairway running down the far side, and swinging to left. Well-bunkered green (MacKenzie bunkers? I don't think so)
4. 363/4 Uphill with OOB wall on left almost all the way to green, which is tucked round to the left slightly behind the wall. Fall away on right. Tough hole - stroke 3
5. 457/4 Monster, uphill, into wind (and sun). Long (41 yards), thin green.
6. 353/4 Drive over sea of heather, slightly uphill to bunkerless green.
7. 304/4 Again plenty of heather. Rather featureless apart from hidden pot bunker on right front of green.
8. 382/4 Strong hole, uphill, with green angled left to right around two right side pot bunkers.
9. 150/3 Stunning short hole with the deepest of chasms to be carried.

10. 358/4 Semi-blind drive over expansive heather to fairway running down quite steeply towards green, which is set up, sloping steeply back-to-front, behind a pond left (MacKenzie?) and trench bunker right (MacKenzie?)
11. 334/4 Much longer than the yardage, played up hill to skyline green. (New?) hidden bunkers at green front.
12. 176/3 Wicked short hole played straight into the teeth of a gale. Full carry, again, over jumble of quarry, heather and bumpy outcrops.
13. 508/5 Interminable long hole played into wind and sun. Fairway slopes significantly left to right towards nasty rough and OOB, and in dry conditions drawn first and second shots would be needed to hold the fairway. Green perilously close to OOB on right and through back.
14. 107/3 Classy little short hole, slightly downhill over gorse to heavily-bunkered green.
15. 500/5 Proximity of road (and OOB) on right dominates each shot.
16. 388/4 Interesting hole, with drive over lots of heather to rising fairway. As it continues to climb the fairway curves late to the right, the green being set at Twenty-to-Two between defensive mounds on both sides, that on the right effectively cutting off most approaches from that side.
17. 152/3 Another wicked short hole over yet another abyss, rocky cliffs and impenetrable rough.
18. 421/4 Relatively straightforward as long as you don't drive left into the car park. Downhill all the way to the green which is set up to receive a perfectly weighted (and difficult to judge) running approach.

[Dean Stokes]

Mark,
I suspect it’s a hidden gem.
I played Fixby  this summer and my partners from Crosland Heath insisted their course was the better course in the area.

Not a prayer

Crosland Heath is fun and a good golf course but is not the test of golf Fixby is. On many occasions Fixby has held the Yorkshire Amateur Championship and the Lawrence Batley European Senior Tour event. It has always stood up well to the good golfer yet is also very enjoyable to the handicap golfer (as my Dad will attest), although some of the uphill walks do tire him out.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Dean, I quite agree with you, but I can understand the loyalty of CH members. Have you played Halifax? What do you think of it? Baildon also appeals. Do you know that?

[Dean Stokes]

Dean, I quite agree with you, but I can understand the loyalty of CH members. Have you played Halifax? What do you think of it? Baildon also appeals. Do you know that?

Mark, I am not bashing CH at all. I always enjoyed going up there to play - it is just not as good a golf course as Fixby IMHO.

I have played Halifax (Ogden) many times. It is not your typical golf course at all but another one I always looked forward to.

It runs through a valley and climbs uphill steadily until you get 'on the tops'. You then run along the top of the valley for a few windswept holes until you get to #17 which is a fun par 3. Its approx 170 yards but drops in elevation about 100 yards. I knew a good scratch player from there who said he had hit every club in his bag from driver to sw on that hole depending on the wind.

The valley holes contain a couple of natural streams that create hazards both off the tee and into the greens.

I never got to play Baildon so could not help you there.

Where are you based in Yorkshire Mark?

[Bill_McBride]

Mark, Crossland sounds distinctly Painswickian with the quarry holes - all nine of them!

How far from London?  What else is nearby?

Thanks,
Bill

[Dean Stokes]

Mark, Crossland sounds distinctly Painswickian with the quarry holes - all nine of them!

How far from London?  What else is nearby?

Thanks,
Bill

Bill, it is approx 270 miles. About three and a half hour drive. Alwoodley, Moortown and Ganton fairly close by.

[Jon Wiggett]

Dean,

if you never played Baildon then you missed a treat. Exposed, moorland course that plays very F&F in the summer but is also usually good in the winter.

I agree that Fixby is the better test of golf and has some cracking holes 1,5,6,9,11 and 16 are all top hales. Indeed 16 is for me possibly the best par 4 I have ever seen although I couldn't tell you exactly why. On the down side I never liked 4 and dislike 12 and 13 which detract from the course IMHO.

CH whilst not having the highs of Fixby also does not have the lows. It is an altogether different animal.

Mark,

did you par 14? It a fabulous shorty isn't it!

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Jon, You flatter me. I didn't par 14, not nearly! I'm glad to hear that Baildon is a must.

Bill, Crosland Heath isn't quite as full of character as Painswick - very little is. I've found the right wire to connect my camera to my lap top and if I can find some suitable host I'll post some pictures.

Dean, I do know Halifax, but I was curious to know what others might think of it. I took my uncle there once and he hated it. I particularly love 3,4,5 across the streams, the short par 4 at the top of the valley that takes you up onto the moor and the 17th.

I couldn't suggest to someone making the trip across the Atlantic that Crosland Heath ought to be on the agenda, but it is one of those many courses in all parts of the UK which are worth playing if you are in the area. Huddersfield GC has some excellent holes and is a good all round test of golf, and the club house is one of the best. Of the other Huddersfield courses I have a soft spot for Outlane - the members are so friendly and three or four holes are really good, but there is also a good deal of Mickey Mouse golf. Woodsome Hall also has a fine clubhouse and two or three decent holes, but the rest is a let down. Marsden is a rarity, a 9-hole MacKenzie course. It's out on the moors.

I've played Dewsbury and District a number of times and it is fun. It is not a great course (Alliss/Thomas rebuild, I think) but there are several exciting shots to be played.

Travelling east from Manchester on the M62 you pass a number of interesting courses, not least Manchester GC at Hopwood, an expansive Colt course. Its near neighbour, New North Manchester, has a number of heroic holes (the 1st from the back tee and the 18th, for starters), but it doesn't quite add up as a whole. I haven't been to Saddleworth for many, many years but it is a great place to be (out on the top of the moors) in good weather and I think it might be a Dr Mac layout. I've never played (and I want to) Tunshill, which is right next to the motorway as you begin the climb over the Pennines. It looks fun (9 holes).

Bradford is an unknown quantity to me, although Cleckheaton (where you leave the M62 for Bradford) has a Dr Mac pedigree. North of Bradford, Otley is classy, though not quite as upper class as Ilkley. Ilkley is noted for its skirmishes with the River Wharf early in the round (including a hole played on an island in the middle of it) but the back nine is first rate. Andy has recommended Shipley (also Dr Mac?) and I'll certainly give it a whirl.

Then you are on to Leeds and the outstanding trio of Alwoodley, Moortown and Sand Moor. I like Headingley and I must revisit Leeds. North of Leeds, Pannal (especially), Harrogate, Oakdale and Knaresborough are all quality courses, but, then, Ganton calls, and that is a call not to be unanswered.

If you haven't left the M62 by now you've left it too late. There's nothing more of such quality (although I have a great affection for the prehistoric rigours of Beverley and East Riding) other than Selby which is reckoned to be one of the best drained courses in the country - and this year will have tested that reputation to the full!

[Andy Levett]

I took my camera too but the battery packed up almost immediately. As a taster for Mark’s pictures here’s what I got.
1st green:


2nd from the tee:


Approach to long third. The bunker in the middle is recent, stops you running the ball in and is a mistake IMHO:


I agree with Mark and Dean about the relative merits of Crosland Heath and Fixby, though to me 12, especially, and 13 at Fixby are decent holes.  Sure, they’re a bit out of character with the rest of the course (12 and 13 were built in the late 60s after some land was sold for housing) but there’s plenty of different styles there already, including Tom Dunn, Fowler and MacK.

[Dean Stokes]

Ah the memories.

I agree with all ther courses you have mentioned especially Otley and Ilkley - both a lot of fun.

In Bradford I would also add Bradford Golf Club (Hawksworth), http://www.bradfordgolfclub.co.uk/

In Leeds I would add Garforth, a firm and fast Dr Mackenzie layout.

Moving to York I would have to visit Fulford site of the old Benson and Hedges Championship, http://www.fulfordgolfclub.com/history.htm and one of my favorites York Golf Club (Strensall), http://www.yorkgolfclub.co.uk/Main/Default.aspx

If you are going to Shipley, remember there are two courses there - Beckfoot and Northcliffe. I believe Beckfoot was the better of the two but I do struggle with my memory these days.

[Jon Wiggett]

Andy,

thanks for the photos, I remember the quarries as showing a few more rocks but maybe that is just my memory. I would point out that my comments on 12 & 13 at Fixby are just my opinion and maybe that I hold certain holes in such high regard is why I have such negatives about others.

Dean,

Beckfoot is probably the better regarded course but Northcliffe does have some good holes especially the 18th a par 3.

Mark,

I worked at Cleckheaton for a couple of years and it does have some good holes on it and it is worth a trip if in the area. Strensall (York GC) is a must play, super course.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Mark et al

I look forward to your photos of Crosland Heath.  As I commented on another thread I live less than an hour from there and have never played it.  Having said that I've never played Fixby and only managed five holes at Woodsome Hall in an open event before the competition was abandoned due to waterlogged greens!

There are some good quality golf courses in the Bradford area, although clearly none of them hit the heights of nearby Alwoodley & Moortown.  Coming off the M62 you are at Cleckheaton which as you say is a Dr Mac with some interesting holes.  However most of the best Bradford courses lie to the north of the city in & above the Aire Valley.  Dean mentioned Bradford GC at Hawksworth & as Jon says Baildon is definitely worth a play.  An OTM pedigree which I would assume is little changed - the course plays over Baildon Moor and is exposed to the wind.  It is usually F&F in summer - assuming we get dry weather!

The Shipley GC is at Beckfoot in Bingley, in the valley bottom.  Also a Dr Mac and Neil Crafter posted a couple of photographs recently.  Although Shipley is better known I consider that Northcliffe GC is the better course with some excellent holes.  But then again I would say that given I am a member there!

Two other courses north of Bradford not yet mentioned on this thread are Bingley St Ives and Keighley.  St Ives played host to the Lawrence Batley event in the 70s/80s.  I remember seeing Trevino, Lyle, Faldo et al play there.  BSI claim their course is also a DrMac but I seem to recall Tom Doak's Mac book saying that this is an incorrect attribution and it actually belonged to his brother Charles MacKenzie. 

Keighley is another valley bottom course (Northcliffe & St Ives are on the hills above the Aire Valley) and I recall a thread on here in the last 12 months which attributed it to Tom Simpson.  The club certainly do not advertise that fact very well!

The best course in the Bradford area is undoubtedly Ilkley, although the club does its best to disassociate itself from the Bradford area!!  Having said that I have always been warmly welcomed there and know several members.

I've always thought that the North Bradford area would make an excellent base for an understated golf trip. You wouldn't play any Top 100 courses but over a couple of days you could play four good quality courses at reasonable cost.

I would be delighted to host any GCAer at Northcliffe, possibly tying it in to another 18 at Shipley, Baildon or Bingley St Ives.

[Neil_Crafter]

Hi Andrew
I can't wait to see Mark's photos either - Mark?

Regarding Bingley St Ives, you are correct in that Doak Scott and Haddock book listed BSI as a course incorrectly attributed to Dr Mac. However, the DSH book didn't get it quite right either! Here's what I have on BSI.

Listed in DSH as a course incorrectly attributed to AM and giving its attribution for the second 9 holes to CA Mackenzie in 1931. Hawtree attributes it to AM as a new course c.1927. C&W list as a new course from 1931. John Lovell, in his article on CA Mackenzie (Through the Green  12/04), states Bingley Urban District Council purchased the St. Ives estate in 1926-27 and AM was engaged to design 27 holes in three loops of nine. Approval for construction was given in 1929 and BGCCC was awarded the contract, but by the time construction started in 1930, Alister and Charles were estranged. Only 9 holes were built and these opened on 21 March 1931. CA Mackenzie then built a further 9 holes in 1934 as a low cost employment project to extend the course to 18 - it is unlikely he used AM's design and as the holes were said not to be of a high design standard, he may have designed them himself.

So there is at least 9 holes that are Alister's and the other nine are most probably Charles. Which nine is which I can't say that I know. Hope this helps.
cheers Neil

[Jon Wiggett]

Brian,

I looked for it too but no luck. Will have another look later and bump it if found.

Jon

[Adam Lawrence]

Crosland Heath is about three miles from the house I grew up in, and where my sister now lives (I was a junior member at nearby Meltham). I'll try to swing by and take some pics next time I visit the family.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Here's the link to the Crosland Heath photo tour:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37325.0.html