“We have ceded our recreation time to our kids.”

[Bob_Huntley]

I am not sure if this has anything to do with the orginal question but do children get embarrassed by motherly affection when being dropped off at the start of the school term?

I remember getting off the train to start my first term at a boarding school when I was ten years old. Helping me with my gear was my fourteen year old sister. My Mother had died a year earlier and my father had recently been evacuated from Dunkirk and was in a military hospital. I saw a bunch of youngsters who would be my classmates over the coming years, and to a boy, they squirmed under the hugs and kisses from Mama.  Later a couple of them came over to me and  said I was lucky, I didn't have to put up with such "sloppiness."


Bob

[J_ Crisham]

Bob,
     
     My  daughters are 7 and 4. At this point I receive a hug and a kiss when I drop them off or pick them up. I'm sure this will end someday but with some luck not soon . The hugs are what gets me thru some stressful days. They grow up all too quickly.          Jack
                                                           

[Charlie Goerges]

"I really think you're making way too much out of this."

You're right about this Tom, I realize that I'm belaboring the point (and I apologize), but I'm doing so in order to get as diverse a response as possible. When you get right down to it, my question can be distilled down to "what should golf courses (or the golf industry) do to make playing golf as a family more accessible to those who would wish to do so?" And for a question like this, the greater the variety of responses the better.

Also, to demonstrate that I am not a total zero as a father, I confess to having played only 1.5 rounds of golf this year, and I'll be surprised if I get 1 more. The remainder of my golfing consists of smacking balls back and forth over the roof of my house with a wedge; a good way to learn to handle pressure situations considering a sculled wedge could mean a broken window.

[Tom Huckaby]

Charlie:

Gotcha:  I'm just not sure what golf courses can do, or really should do.

But then again, when I do go play golf - at least on a weekend morning - the last thing I want to see is a family in front of me.  I'm there for refuge from such things, and I'd like to play in less than 6 hours.

So I am likely not the one to ask.

 

[Jason Topp]

I am not sure if this has anything to do with the orginal question but do children get embarrassed by motherly affection when being dropped off at the start of the school term?

I remember getting off the train to start my first term at a boarding school when I was ten years old. Helping me with my gear was my fourteen year old sister. My Mother had died a year earlier and my father had recently been evacuated from Dunkirk and was in a military hospital. I saw a bunch of youngsters who would be my classmates over the coming years, and to a boy, they squirmed under the hugs and kisses from Mama.  Later a couple of them came over to me and  said I was lucky, I didn't have to put up with such "sloppiness."


Bob

Bob:

Yes.  My son insisted that his mother hug him in the house before going out to the bus to start school this year.  Mom and I were both touched.
 

[Jason Topp]

Charlie:

Gotcha:  I'm just not sure what golf courses can do, or really should do.

But then again, when I do go play golf - at least on a weekend morning - the last thing I want to see is a family in front of me.  I'm there for refuge from such things, and I'd like to play in less than 6 hours.

So I am likely not the one to ask.

 

To me the solution is having kids play late in the evening when the course is empty.  Even the most crowded muni empties out when it is no longer possible to play nine holes.  Kids new to the game probably do not need more than 3 holes anyway.  Courses should encourage such play as marketing to new potential customers.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jason:

BINGO.  That's what I've done with my kids.  And interestingly the much-maligned Santa Teresa faciliates this.. they offer free golf on many summer evenings.  They also have short kiddie tees on every hole.  They have a great par 3 course and a junior league that uses it a lot.  They are a model for family golf, for sure.  But still, no way I bring my kids there to play the big course on a weekend morning.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Jason:

 They have a great par 3 course and a junior league that uses it a lot. 
TH

Your damn right its great....its the provider of your Hole in One...oh wait does that count when its on a par 3 course?      

[Tom Huckaby]

shivas:  you go off on so many tirades here, how can you expect any of us to remember any particular one?

But you're right, come to think of it, I do remember it now.  But what's funny is when you posted that I fully believed you do have a daughter on four travel teams.

In any case, as one who has two kids in comp soccer right now, well.... let's just say we each have our own realities.  My kids overcame their genes to get darn good at the sport, so it just made sense to alleviate their frustrations and get them with other kids at their level.  Beyond that, the uniforms were cooler.  So they each wanted to do it.  They asked me; I didn't push them.  And if either or both quit tomorrow, that would be fine by me.  Oh we'd find them something else to do - I don't like inactivity - but for now, this comp soccer does work fine.  It's not as crazy as the travel teams you hear about, anyway... oh there are lots of games, and once or twice a season it will involve an overnight stay somewhere, but mostly the games are local, and the coaches and most parents are still all about fun.

In any event, one way or the other, be it comp/travel teams or just playing in the local league, someone has to get them to the games.  And if you have two kids, it's a lucky weekend indeed when overlap doesn't occur... so two kids, two chauffers, two parents does continue to equal no golf.

And it's just fine.  Golf ain't going anywhere.  They will only be this age where they want me to watch for a very short while.  Hell it's almost ending NOW with my 13 year old.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Of course they ask, Tom.  All it takes is a few friends to get pushed into it by Earl Woods wannabes, and then all the kids want to do it too -- to play with their friends.  Plus, kiddies love trips to anywhere to do anything...

Every night after dinner, my kids ask to watch TV, blow off their homework, eat a gallon of ice cream and stay up late, too.... 

The point was they wanted to play comp soccer as opposed to the normal rec soccer - I didn't push them.

Outside of that, let's just leave it at we all have our own realities.  I am not judging you, nor should you judge me.  So best to leave this one as is.  Trust me that what my kids are doing is good for them, and good for the family as a whole - as I assume your situation is for you.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

I'm not taking sides here.

But if my kids were asking me to play competitive soccer or sport in general all the time as opposed to wanting to stay up late, eat ice cream for breakfast, and blow off school....

Seems to me it'd be a pretty easy decision over which direction I'd be more than pleased to take.

[Charlie Goerges]

Jason, Tom, and Tim RE family golf,

I like your ideas, free or cheap evenings are a great idea. One resort course up here (central MN) had a deal this past spring that any day of the week up until Memorial Day (start of the busy season) if an adult over 21 brought a kid under 16 both got to play for free.

[Charlie Goerges]

"Seems to me it'd be a pretty easy decision over which direction I'd be more than pleased to take."

Heck yeah it would be easy; I hate homework and I love ice cream.

[Tom Huckaby]

shivas:  I am chuckling at the fact you seem to think my kids get everything they want and the suggestion that I take no role in deciding what's good for them and carrying that out.

You can't possibly mean that.

But whatever.  I do believe this has gone way afield from the intention here, and is getting into more personal stuff, from which offense might be taken.  Thus I shall bow out.  If you wish to discuss this further, or give me any other parenting advice, well... you have my phone number.

TH

[Rich Goodale]

Dave

Two questions:

1.  Is your daughter good enough at geometry/mechanics to understand the principles of the "Cheater Line" conundrum?

2.  At 4' 10" is she big enough to be comfortable with the belly putter?

Thanks in advance.

Rich

[Michael Blake]

Lederach GC, a fun KBM course (discussed a few times) close to me has had a great 'Family Night' special for the past few months.

$35 total. For 4 people. $35!!!  absolutely a great deal and a great idea.

walking only.
after 6pm only
the foursome must be 'family'

[Charlie Goerges]

Michael,

Wow, regardless of the quality of the course, that sounds like a steal! That is another of the type of thing that I am interested in learning about. The course might be taking a loss on the green fee revenue (maybe not), but they may end up ahead when factoring in concessions etc. Plus, you can't put a price on potentially creating a bunch of golf addicts, and all for less than it costs to take the family to the movies.

[Jerry Kluger]

Let me begin by saying that I absolutely believe that the time you spend with your kids on the golf course is better than any other sporting activity.  You get to know them better and they will feel more comfortable telling you things that help you understand them.  Yeah, I know all about the soccer and baseball and basketball - I did it all with my boys who are now 12 and 15.  You stand there watching them practice and playing their games and if you are really honest about it, you have to wonder what the whole exercise is all about.  Sure, a very small percentage become good enough by age 12 to play in a serious league, but most have lost interest in the sport by then or are doing it just to please you. 

Unfortunately, what happens to many kids today is that games like Rock Band, etc., give them an excuse to stay inside and do nothing that is close to exercise.  You want your kids to play golf because it is good exercise and it helps them focus and deal with pressure situations because life ain't easy. In most areas you can join a golf club for a relatively small amount of money and the kids can play at a reasonable time on weekends.  Don't use the excuse of how much it costs - look at what the value is to you, your kids, and your family.  My 15 year old has been playing since he was 7 or 8 and has the potential to be a really good player - Rock Band and computers have given him an easy and less challenging way to spend his spare time and I am not happy about it. 

You need to make the effort and spend the money to get your kids into golf and stop with the easy way out by taking them to play a game which they are doing to please you so you can make your excuse.  Oh, by the way, the 15 year old plays the drums in a band, and the family has been to see Aerosmith, Motley Crue, Journey, Def Lepard, and Lenny Kravitz, and I have just gotten tickets for AC/DC, so I have no problem doing what he likes.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jerry:

That's all well and good - in general.

In most areas you can join a golf club for a relatively small amount of money and the kids can play at a reasonable time on weekends.  Don't use the excuse of how much it costs - look at what the value is to you, your kids, and your family. 

What if I told you that the cheapest private club clost to me has an initiation fee of at least $50K, with $600+ per month dues?  And on top of that, none allow juniors on weekend mornings.  Does that change the equation?

Look, it's all well and good to tell others what they should and shouldn't do.  The reality is that at least here in the San Jose, CA area, family golf is just not going to happen; not very easily anyway.

So I surely support it as a concept, and agree it's a great thing to do.  As I've said, I do play with my son from time to time (the daughter hates the sport and wouldn't be caught dead doing it), and it is great fun, good for both of us.  It's just rather impractical here to do it too often, at the times one would want to do it, anyway.

As for your comments on team sports, I have no doubt it works out that way for some - but not all.

And as for this:

You need to make the effort and spend the money to get your kids into golf and stop with the easy way out by taking them to play a game which they are doing to please you so you can make your excuse.

Do you really mean that as the fightin' words that they seem to be?  Do you really advocate forcing kids to play a sport they may or may not want to to play?

I'll save a response to that for now.

TH

[Richard Choi]

SWEET!!! Rock Band!!!

My daughter and I jam out pretty much every night on it.

Maybe we can get a GCA jam session online

I will say that families are lot smaller these days compared to 30 or 40 years ago. There are very few families I know that have more than 2 children. Many only have 1.

And with a fewer kids, you are going to be naturally more protective and more involved.

[Tim Pitner]

Yeah, I know all about the soccer and baseball and basketball - I did it all with my boys who are now 12 and 15.  You stand there watching them practice and playing their games and if you are really honest about it, you have to wonder what the whole exercise is all about.  Sure, a very small percentage become good enough by age 12 to play in a serious league, but most have lost interest in the sport by then or are doing it just to please you. 

Jerry,

I would hope the exercise would be about having fun, learning something about teamwork and the rewards of effort and practice, making friends, getting some exercise, etc.  I just started my 6-year old daughter in soccer and would hate to think we'd regret the experience if she doesn't end up in a "serious league" down the road. 

[Tom Huckaby]

Tim:

Well said, and those things are what it is all about.  I'm hoping Jerry understands this and his post was meant mainly in jest.

6 year old soccer is more fun than adults ought to be allowed to watch.  We've been attending some games of our next-door neighbor little girl and man do I miss those days... pack-ball, waving to parents, ribbons in the hair and the halftime and postgame snacks mattering way more than anything else.  Those are good times, my friend.  Not that it gets worse as they get older, far from it... it just does get way less cute.

 

[Tom Huckaby]

you forgot cartwheels while on defense and the kid who was just goalie forgetting she's not goalie anymore and just picking up the ball when it's close to her defensive net.  I saw both last Saturday...priceless.

YES YES YES YES YES

Man I love that age.  I miss it.

Good news is I have a two year old so odds are I see this again... but sad to say boys aren't nearly as cute.

TH

[Tim Pitner]

Tom and Shivas,

There is great comedy at those games.  What I find particularly cute (in addition to the types of things you mentioned) is the glance over to the sidelines from my daughter after scoring a goal to make sure her parents saw it, and then the look of slight embarassment from her when we meet her glance and she goes back to running around on the field with her friends. 

[Phil McDade]

Good news is I have a two year old so odds are I see this again... but sad to say boys aren't nearly as cute.

TH

Huck:

My wife would disagree...