‘You Must Cheer when Europe miss putts’ Please tell me he did not say that

[rboyce]

Not a fan of the "we can do it since they have done it to us type thinking". But, clearly both sides have behaved badly at times. Trying to figure out who started it is a conversation that doesn't lead to much.

We all see local spectators act like total jack arses at the British Open every single year. So there is no high horse for either side to ride on. I'm pretty sure the reason that Azinger has been so aggressive is because of the poor sportsmanship he believes the Euros have displayed in the past. Faldo has admitted he has done this and everyone knows Seve has as well.

I'd much rather see players go out there and play hard. Let your play do the talking. There are plenty of example of guys doing this both now and in the past. Quietly beat the heck out of your opponent and then shake their hand afterwards.

[mike_beene]

My guess is that Mr Ryder would want his cup back.You could pick 10 people on either side who started the demise.

[Andy Troeger]

I certainly agree that sportmanship is an important part of golf, the Ryder Cup, and everything else that goes along with it. Quite frankly though I see nothing wrong with cheering the home team when they win a hole, whether it comes by a made putt or a missed putt. The key to that is to cheer the victors and not against the losers of a particular hole. Are people capable of doing that?

The way Azinger said it doesn't sound very good though upon first glance. Both sides seem to have about equal blame, however, if you can call it that.

In any case, I'm enjoying watching golf where the players actually show some emotion. Half the time watching the regular events I fall asleep because I'm about as excited to watch as the players appear while playing.

I'd vote for emotion and sportsmanship, but sometimes they don't go hand in hand.

[Dan_Callahan]

The Europeans need to grow some balls and stop their bitching. We hear this every four years when the Cup is played in the U.S. After enduring decades of Seve's boorish behavior, Sergio's poor sportsmanship, Monty's wanking, etc., the European side is in no position to complain. U.S. fans by and large are no better or worse than fans across the pond. In every Cup there are some drunks who get out of control, and there are players (Boo, Sergio) who let their emotions pour out during play. It is part of the Ryder Cup experience and  too much is made of it every time the event is played.

[Tim Bert]

You guys are making way too much of this.  Personally, I think if you sren't going to root for your team at the Ryder Cup you might as well not show up at the matches.  Sit at home and watch it on TV.  There's nothing wrong with cheering for your team, and it can be done in a tactful manner, even if a win comes because the opponent misses a putt.  No need to pooh-pooh them.  It's not like he's asking the fans to heckle the opponent, or "boo" when they win hole.  He's asking them to root for us and show some national pride, which quite frankly has been missing on our side for some time.   

Here were Azinger's comments at his interview yesterday:
"Essentially, you know, when we go over there, they cheer when we miss. I don't think that the American fans are really into what The Ryder Cup is all about in the fact that, you know, there is that other element. And it wasn't meant to be malicious and I'm really proud that the fans have been absolutely perfectly behaved this morning.

But that really is all that was. It was kind of an education almost, and enlightening to kind of that's what goes on over there. If we lose a hole or we miss a putt, they cheer. I don't think the American fans get that part. Golf is, everybody oohs and aahs, but the European fans, they get it. The American fans, they don't, and they are not used to that.

I was just making sure that if they understood that if we win a hole, they can cheer, and even if somebody misses a putt for us to win a hole. So that's really all that was. And again, I'll reiterate, I think you'll find that so far, the great fans of Kentucky have not done anything to let us down or embarrass us. They have been ... I don't know if you could ever find a more enthusiastic group of fans anywhere in the world than what we had here this morning and they were all properly behaved. So I'm really proud of that fact."

[Brian Phillips]

The Europeans need to grow some balls and stop their bitching. We hear this every four years when the Cup is played in the U.S. After enduring decades of Seve's boorish behavior, Sergio's poor sportsmanship, Monty's wanking, etc., the European side is in no position to complain. U.S. fans by and large are no better or worse than fans across the pond. In every Cup there are some drunks who get out of control, and there are players (Boo, Sergio) who let their emotions pour out during play. It is part of the Ryder Cup experience and  too much is made of it every time the event is played.

Which Europeans are bitching...?

[Jon Wiggett]

Both sides should not be judged by their example of their power but by the power of their example.

Yes, okay I stole this, kind of

Maybe Azinger should have tried to improve something that he obviously didn't agree with instead of upping the stakes and his choosing not to says a lot about his character.

Jason,

what the US team did on the 17th at Brookline was totally unacceptable and the European reaction was probably to light. Firstly, you shouldn't run on greens, secondly you should not step on someones putting line. Thirdly, having done both you might consider an apology. I don't think complaining about this is OTT, do you???

Tim & Dan,

you are two really sad characters

[Tim Bert]

Both sides should not be judged by their example of their power but by the power of their example.

Yes, okay I stole this, kind of

Maybe Azinger should have tried to improve something that he obviously didn't agree with instead of upping the stakes and his choosing not to says a lot about his character.

Jason,

what the US team did on the 17th at Brookline was totally unacceptable and the European reaction was probably to light. Firstly, you shouldn't run on greens, secondly you should not step on someones putting line. Thirdly, having done both you might consider an apology. I don't think complaining about this is OTT, do you???

Tim & Dan,

you are two really sad characters

Dan and I aren't even arguing the same thing, but thanks for grouping us together.  I don't think it is appropriate for the playersd to celebrate mishaps or missed putts.  That's sportsmanship.  I think that it is foolish to expect that the home crows can't sheer for their team when done appropirately.  I'm sorry, but if I'm at the matches and the US closes out a match on the 16th hole and it just happens to be because one of the European players failed to make a putt, I'm not going to refrain from applauding or celebrating the Americans efforts over the course of the match out of respect for the player that missed a putt.  They should play the matches in a bubble if that's the case.

[Dan_Callahan]

Which Europeans are bitching...?

Did you see Lee Westwood's interview?

[Mike Benham]

From reading most of the replies we all seem to agree but there is some flag waving going on which there is no need. It’s Golf

It is not golf, it is a team competition between two passionate teams, in this case, a country vs. countries. 

Not unlike the Olympics or the World Cup, the fans and participants will behave in a manor that might not be acceptable to all. 

A simple game of golf is not televised around the world with matching outfits and wives in attendance.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Thank you Gentlemen (sorry I jest) for proving my point.

Very few seem to care about the game of golf and its all about childish behaviour.  The point is that it should not have been said by a Captain and should been stopped by those in charge. But some of the adults on this site are as mature as the American Captain – I expect I should not be surprised.

But I must say I am disappointed to see language from Dan C  i.e. ‘Monty's wanking’.  Clearly all is not rosy in America. But rest assured when you guys travel over to our little islands we will show you no discourtesy, and be more than happy to share our warm beer with you because at the end of the day it is just a game and not a war.  We don't need to win to enjoy Golf because we have nothing to prove or to feel insecure about. Poor old Mike Benham, still a lot to learn.

[Mark Pearce]

In the UK we are taught not to cheer opponents mistakes or failures. 

Yes, I'm sure the good folks at Old Trafford have never, ever done that during a ManU-Chelsea match.

One of the stupidest, least well thought out post I have ever read on GCA.  What the Hell has behaviour at Old Trafford got to do with golf?  Do you want golf crowds behaving like ice hockey crowds?  

What Azinger said is unacceptable and to attempt to justify it reflects badly on you.

[Dan_Callahan]

Tim & Dan,

you are two really sad characters

This is a typical response on this site. Rather than simply disagree with what I said, you attack my character. We have never met. You know nothing about me. So don't be a jackass and call me a sad character just because I am tired of the Europeans allowing their inner crybabies to come out every time they play in the U.S.

Hard to feel sorry for a bunch of millionaires who play golf for a living. Faldo should pull them all into the locker room and tell them to grow a thicker skin keep their wanking to themselves. As a team, the Euros are all smiles and pleasantries when they are up. Their true character comes out when they are down and start to blame everything other than their own play.

As for Brookline, rather than bitching about a team running onto the green in a spontaneous celebration (and for which they have apologized repeatedly), how about congratulating Leonard for making one of the greatest clutch putts in the history of the game?

[Mark Pearce]

Tim & Dan,

you are two really sad characters

This is a typical response on this site. Rather than simply disagree with what I said, you attack my character. We have never met. You know nothing about me. So don't be a jackass and call me a sad character just because I am tired of the Europeans allowing their inner crybabies to come out every time they play in the U.S.

Hard to feel sorry for a bunch of millionaires who play golf for a living. Faldo should pull them all into the locker room and tell them to grow a thicker skin keep their wanking to themselves. As a team, the Euros are all smiles and pleasantries when they are up. Their true character comes out when they are down and start to blame everything other than their own play.

As for Brookline, rather than bitching about a team running onto the green in a spontaneous celebration (and for which they have apologized repeatedly), how about congratulating Leonard for making one of the greatest clutch putts in the history of the game?

I'm going to assume that the language you choose to use illustrates again that we are, indeed divided by language.  Otherwise it is completely unacceptable.

[Dan_Callahan]

I'm going to assume that the language you choose to use illustrates again that we are, indeed divided by language.  Otherwise it is completely unacceptable.

What language would that be, Mark? English?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Dan

Calm down, check your blood pressure. My, are you anti the World.

To be honest I totally disagree with you and your comments on this topic.  

Trust that is acceptable?

PS English is indeed the language, does that upset you as well?

[Dan_Callahan]

But I must say I am disappointed to see language from Dan C  i.e. ‘Monty's wanking’.  Clearly all is not rosy in America.

What does Monty's wanking have to do with "rosiness" in America?

Are you really defending a guy who a few months ago attacked a sound technician after he dumped a shot into the water? A guy who said "You're here because of me, OK. Remember that." What an arrogant, condescending SOB. Typical of his elitist attitude to berate a blue collar guy for his own shortcomings.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Dan

You do seem to have some problems, but this is a golf site so will leave you to resolve them yourself.

[Rick Shefchik]

I haven't read anyone on the European side dispute Azinger's contention that the Euro crowds cheer when the U.S. players miss -- despite what they may have been taught when they were young.

Why, then, has this been presented as a strictly American problem?

Yes, Azinger brought it up. But he didn't invent it. Seems to me he was trying to find a positive way to address a situation that has existed in the Ryder Cup for years, and will continue to exist long after Azinger, Faldo, Boo and Sergio have shuffled off the stage.

[Dan_Callahan]

Dan

You do seem to have some problems, but this is a golf site so will leave you to resolve them yourself.

Funny.

[Andy Troeger]

But rest assured when you guys travel over to our little islands we will show you no discourtesy, and be more than happy to share our warm beer with you because at the end of the day it is just a game and not a war.  We don't need to win to enjoy Golf because we have nothing to prove or to feel insecure about.

Melvyn,
Obviously Azinger would disagree with you (see his quote in Tim's post on page one), or at least would say what he is encouraging is no more or less than what he expects when he travels to your "little islands" as you put it. When he says it he should be condemned, what happens on the other side of the pond? Any thoughts?

[Jon Wiggett]

I'm going to assume that the language you choose to use illustrates again that we are, indeed divided by language.  Otherwise it is completely unacceptable.

What language would that be, Mark? English?

Dan,

Leonards putt wasn't a clutch putt when he holed it.
you colourful use of langauge (I will not say english) is what led me to my conclusion, that you don't see, it is why you are.

Tim,

you're quote by Azinger is by a man trying to back peddling without looking like he is. That you are supporting his stance, well. It is okay to cheer your own team winning but not to cheer the apponnents misses before your team holes to win. This is what Azinger got wrong. I am not saying that European fans have always been better but it would nice for someone to make a start on improving things.

[JNC Lyon]

For people who say that this event has "always been about winning with honor, and this 'win at all costs' mentality has only started in the past few years,"  this is totally inaccurate and untrue.  In the 1969 Ryder Cup at Birkdale, the one where Nicklaus gave Jacklin the two footer on the last, there was some serious bad blood.  Kenny Still and Dave Hill had repeated disagreements with Bernard Gallacher, with Hill threatening to 'wrap a 1-iron' around his head.'  At the beginning of the matches, GB Captain Eric Brown instructed his players never to search for American golf balls in the rough.  Since I haven't seen any threats of this sort in any recent Ryder Cup matches, I'm pretty sure the event hasn't digressed in the amount of sportsmanship involved.

Personally, I love the intensity of the matches on both sides.  I'll cheer against the Europeans, but I certainly expect and welcome the same from the other side.  Emotions run higher in this event than any other, and people are going to have to understand this.

[Brian Phillips]

Which Europeans are bitching...?

Did you see Lee Westwood's interview?

Yes...that was not bitching...all he was asking for was Bo not too get the crowd going between shots....not really bitching....just courtesy if you ask me.  He didn't mind the shouting just don't do it between shots or putts..

[Tim Bert]

Tim,

you're quote by Azinger is by a man trying to back peddling without looking like he is. That you are supporting his stance, well. It is okay to cheer your own team winning but not to cheer the apponnents misses before your team holes to win. This is what Azinger got wrong. I am not saying that European fans have always been better but it would nice for someone to make a start on improving things.

Jon - Upon further consideration, it probably wasn't appropriate for Azinger to make the comments as the captain (consistent with my earlier comment that I don't think the players shd celebrate the opponents failures.)  Whether I support the comment or not, I was simply posting the quote for everyone to see his actual comments rather than speculating on their own opinion of what he MIGHT have said or MIGHT have felt was appropriate.

So, I'll concede that the captain probably shouldn't be in the business of trying to incite the crowd, but I stand firmly on the opinion that the crowd should cheer for their team, and at times the celebration of the home team may involve the shortcomings of the road team.

If you don't agree, then we'll simply disagree but trust I'm not the drunken out of hand fan that's out of control on the golf course.  I simply think there is nothing wrong with rooting vocally for the team.