‘You Must Cheer when Europe miss putts’ Please tell me he did not say that

[Melvyn Morrow]

‘You Must Cheer when Europe miss putts’

I have just read a report that the American Captain of the Ryder Cup Team Paul Azinger has told fans ‘You Must Cheer when Europe miss putts’

I hope this is just the newspapers trying to generate a controversy and that the report is totally untrue.

However if there is any fact in this statement – which I sincerely hope there is not, then it shows that Golf in America has fallen to its lowest point. It shames and undermines a proud Nation and the old Scottish pioneers that introduce the game to North America will be turning in their graves.

Lets hope its just the media hype, but if Azinger did utter these words, then I believe the Governing Bodies have only one option and that is to stop the Ryder Cup now and present the Ryder Cup to the European Team because the American Team (through it's Captain) should be disqualified for bringing the sport into disrepute’.

I would go I step further and ask the World Golfers to boycott all Majors in the USA, that how serious I believe that statement (if true) has hurt golf and in particular American Golf.

So for the sake of the Game, friendship and all that’s good in the human spirit,  l hope Paul Azinger did not suggest to the fans ‘You Must Cheer when Europe miss putts’.

[Ronald Montesano]

It is the nature of the beast that the Euro fans find a way to encourage their team without (excepting the most extreme cases) directly taunting the Yanks.  As a result, cheering for anything that helps Europe  is commonplace in Europe, although you won't probably hear a "You Suck, Mahan," from Euro Fans.  My take, after reading articles, is that Azinger revealed that it is all right to cheer against Europe, but not to attack them.  Good for him.  If the adults behave like adults, we'll be fine.  Yesterday there was a spirited back and forth at the first tee (again from newspaper reports) between Euro and Yank fans, and that's cool.  It's the mutual respect that doesn't descend into unfounded hatred that we're after.  Don't be pansies, fans--have at the other team but know when to stop.

Of course, all this is moot when beer and face paint are involved.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Just seen Azinger say exactly that on a TV clip at some sort of rally.  I'm not sure what standard of sportsmanship exists in the States but that comment is well below the belt on this side of the pond.

[Don Hyslop]

  I just hope it does not end up as return to the Brookline fiasco mentality. As someone who is neither American or European, I would hope that the sportsmanship expected of both players and spectators does not degenerate into something ugly. Oh and by the way Boo Weekley tune it down a bit!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A41176190

[Chris Kane]

I often read that most PGA Tour professionals are clones, and should show more emotion.  If the American behaviour during Ryder Cups is any indication, its probably best that they keep the poker faces.

It could get very ugly if the result is close on Sunday.

[Dan Herrmann]

From the info sheet all patrons get when they attend The Masters:

Bob Jones' Message
"In golf, customs of etiquette and decorum are just as important as rules governing play. It is appropriate for spectators to applaud successful strokes in proportion to difficulty but excessive demonstrations by a player or his partisans are not proper because of the possible effect upon other competitors."

"Most distressing to those who love the game of golf is the applauding or cheering of misplays or misfortunes of a player. Such occurrences have been rare at the Masters but we must eliminate them entirely if our patrons are to continue to merit their reputation as the most knowledgeable and considerate in the world."
(Written April, 1967)

Robert Tyre Jones, Jr., (1902-1971), President in Perpetuity
Augusta National Golf Club

-------------------------

Bob Jones said it best.

[Ronald Montesano]

Andrew Mitchell, you have written a naive statement.  It is not well below the belt along or in the pond.  Azinger is not addressing nor condoning direct insult, simply a yelp or a holler.

[Melvyn Morrow]

So it appears to be true, the American Captain is encouraging the crowds to raise their voices and cheer at their Guests.

Sportsmanship, sorry there is no sportsmanship in that type of behaviour, it is an absolute disgrace, and the Governing Bodies should now step in. But of course they will not, too afraid of the money men, scared of the shadows. They will let golf descend to the depths before considering to act. Money is the name of the game, not Golf.

Let’s not forget this is not a war, it’s a game of Golf. To win with Honour was once the only thing that mattered. The Honour for your Country, your Family and of course oneself, but now it appears that winning is all that matters, at any cost, by any means possible. Yet in truth it is a hallow victory, totally worthless and of no value.

How the mighty could fall, but what will be the ultimate price paid for any hollow victory – alone and ostracized.     

Yet there is hope when we read Dan's quote from Robert Tyre Jones Jr dated 1967, pity the Azinger does not comply.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Andrew Mitchell, you have written a naive statement.  It is not well below the belt along or in the pond.  Azinger is not addressing nor condoning direct insult, simply a yelp or a holler.

In the UK we are taught not to cheer opponents mistakes or failures.  Azinger is telling people to do exactly that.  Call me naive if you want but its a shame people do not uphold the standards set by Bobby Jones.

[John Keenan]

Cheering your opponents mistakes is bad sportsmanship plain and simple.

[Phil McDade]

In the UK we are taught not to cheer opponents mistakes or failures. 

Yes, I'm sure the good folks at Old Trafford have never, ever done that during a ManU-Chelsea match.

[Tom Dunne]

I guess it depends on whether the cheering is to show support of the side that has just won a hole as a result of that missed putt, or directly rooting against the other side. The Ryder Cup isn't Premiership football, so I don't really buy that line of logic. Similarly, the Ryder Cup and the Masters are two very different entities, but I do think the Bobby Jones quote Dan Herrmann posted captures what the spirit should be quite well.

I remember attending the final round of the US Open at Shinnecock Hills a few years ago and being really disappointed to see some of the fans vocally rooting against Ernie Els and Retief Goosen because Mickelson was in contention.

The goal should be to have a spirited event while still promoting good sportsmanship. But I'm sure the Europeans wouldn't want to have the cup simply handed to them because of a quote like this, as Melvyn advocates.

[Bill_McBride]

This all started at Kiawah in 1991 with "The War by the Shore," with Seve giving lessons in gamesmanship.  It's hasn't gotten any prettier since then, regrettably.

It was great at the Walker Cup, both 2005 in Chicago and 2007 at Newcastle, to see the fans on both sides cheering for all the players.  There was an emphasis on cheering for the home side players but friendliness to all. The Presidents Cup is more like that than like the Ryder Cup, which I really have no interest in attending.  That atmosphere is just too OTT for me.

[Andrew Mitchell]

In the UK we are taught not to cheer opponents mistakes or failures. 

Yes, I'm sure the good folks at Old Trafford have never, ever done that during a ManU-Chelsea match.

I thought this was a thread about behaviour at golf tournaments not football matches.

Bill - I agree with your take on behaviour at the Walker Cup - by all means cheer for your own team but not actively against their opponents.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Thanks to the media, the Ryder Cup has deteriorated from a competitive event, with the flavor of comraderie, amongst sportsmen/gentlemen to a nasty confrontation between opposing sides.

"The Pit" mentality is alive and well after centuries in abstentia.

"Cheering and/or clapping" after miscues is in the worst possible taste and a testament to the eroding values/traditions behind the game, thanks to a media that's hyping disent and poor sportsmanship.

If the media can delay and edit expletives they can certainly do the same with those idiots who yell, "get in the hole" and other comments.

I play in a tournament every year, where golfers come from near and far.
It's almost like a reunion.  We practice together, dine together, drink and have fun together, then, we play golf and try to beat each other's brains out.  And when the matches are over, we go back to having fun together.

The media has corrupted the event and promoted antagonism instead of comraderie and good sportsmanship at a competitive event

[Melvyn Morrow]

Phil

I believe we are talking about Golf not a Neanderthal game like football whose players, let alone fans could not spell let alone understand the word etiquette.  

Tom

No, I don’t want anything handed over; I want the winners to win by fair and honest means.  But behaviour like that is not acceptable from the Captain of the Home Team and something needs to be done to eradicate this type of very poor and ignorant behaviour.

A common courtesy is all I would expect bearing in mind America is the host and the Europeans their guests. Or are you saying this is the way normal Americans treat their guests?  Because that is not my experience.

[Jason Topp]

Cheering your opponents mistakes is bad sportsmanship plain and simple.

I completely agree, and I strongly disapprove of Azinger's statement.  I certainly can understand Melvin's sentiment.

Nonetheless, as soon as the results were in yesterday, there was no doubt that a chorus of complaints about american behavior would follow.  Additionally Europeans impose a double standard when reviewing player and fan behavior at these matches.  

Cheering misses became a nasty problem at the Belfry.

Boo Weekly's behavior is on par with Sergio Garcia's past behavior.

The European reaction to the celebration on 17 at Brookline was completely out of line.  

The European reaction to the rest of the week at Brookline was not out of line.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Oh Dear, now we must accept outrageous behaviour because it happened in the past and of course started by others.

That I believe explains The American’s Captain approach, nothing to do with putting off ones opponents.

Keep making the excuses but until someone accepts responsibility OUR SPORT OF GOLF is being totally compromised and dragged through the gutter with unacceptable behaviour.   

[Bill Gayne]

I've been watching the telecast this morning and saw the end of yesterday's telecast. So despite Azinger's effort to rile the crowd up I haven't seen anything that resembles poor sportsmanship. There most likely are isolated incidents but the masses appear to be doing just fine. The isolated incidents need to be dealt with by security when they happen.

[Phil McDade]

Oh Dear, now we must accept outrageous behaviour because it happened in the past and of course started by others.

That I believe explains The American’s Captain approach, nothing to do with putting off ones opponents.

Keep making the excuses but until someone accepts responsibility OUR SPORT OF GOLF is being totally compromised and dragged through the gutter with unacceptable behaviour.   

Melvyn:

Poor behavior is poor behavior, regardless of where it comes from. I certainly don't condone some of the over-the-top antics yesterday in Kentucky.

But some of us over here on the US side of the pond grow occasionally tired of lectures like this...

"...it shows that Golf in America has fallen to its lowest point. It shames and undermines a proud Nation and the old Scottish pioneers that introduce the game to North America will be turning in their graves.

Lets hope its just the media hype, but if Azinger did utter these words, then I believe the Governing Bodies have only one option and that is to stop the Ryder Cup now and present the Ryder Cup to the European Team because the American Team (through it's Captain) should be disqualified for bringing the sport into disrepute’.

I would go I step further and ask the World Golfers to boycott all Majors in the USA, that how serious I believe that statement (if true) has hurt golf and in particular American Golf."

...when there has been ample evidence of similar behavior, by both players and fans, on the Euro front for a number of Ryder Cups.

[Jason Topp]

Oh Dear, now we must accept outrageous behaviour because it happened in the past and of course started by others.

That I believe explains The American’s Captain approach, nothing to do with putting off ones opponents.

Keep making the excuses but until someone accepts responsibility OUR SPORT OF GOLF is being totally compromised and dragged through the gutter with unacceptable behaviour.   

Melvin

I respect the viewpoint.  I have no problem with condemning the behavior. I have no problem condemning the statement.  I applaud the idea of trying to prevent our game from being dragged down by unacceptable behavior.

I have a problem with the fact that the complaints are most vociferous when Europe loses.      

[JSPayne]

"Azinger yesterday offered no apology and explained that he was simply educating fans on what has happened at home European games when US misses are cheered. That may have been the case, but this is the first time a home captain has actively encouraged the practice.

"When we go over there they cheer when we miss. I don't think the American fans are really into what the Ryder Cup is all about in that there is another element," he said. "It wasn't meant to be malicious and I'm really proud the fans have been perfectly behaved this morning.

"It was kind of an education to what goes on over there. If we lose a hole or miss a putt, they cheer.

"I was just making sure that they understood that if we win a hole they can cheer and even if somebody misses a putt for us to win a hole.

So that's really all that was.""

- The Herald, Sept. 20, 2008

[Steve Lang]

 

harrrrrummmph, i take great ummmmbrage..  when a game and sport heritage is confused with professional activity and media hubris

[Melvyn Morrow]

I don’t care who wins the Ryder Cup or any other competition.

But I am surprised as it seems that every time someone mentions American Golf, if you do not consider it complementary you guys run and hide behind your Nation. It’s not about America its all about Golf.  I don’t care who started it or finishes it. It needs to stop. There is no way a debate or discussion can move forward if we run and get out our flag, to me that’s a sign of insecurity.  

The American Captain and what he said is totally out of order and not in keeping with the spirit of the game of Golf. The Governing Bodies should do something, that's their Job, but surprise so far nothing has been said or done, that's also a bloody disgrace, it sends out the wrong message and keeps this crap going. Nor does this reflect well on the host Nation.

From reading most of the replies we all seem to agree but there is some flag waving going on which there is no need. It’s Golf

[Michael Powers]

While Azinger’s comments were inappropriate and regrettable, so is the European whining about the conduct of U.S. fans during the Ryder Cup.  It is as if no European has ever cheered a missed putt by an American.

In ’99 Padraig Harrington’s and Mark James’ slow play tactics were outrageous on Sunday.  On the 16th hole Harrington took about 10 minutes to pull a club, then Mark James came over and they stood in the middle of tee for another 5 minutes before he played his shot.  On 17, when it was O’Meara’s turn to play Harrington decided to walk 100 yards or so up onto the green all the way to the hole while O’Meara waited and the crowd stirred.  

Seems to me that ever since the “War by the Shore” thing with the Desert Storm hats the Euros have been oversensitive regarding fan conduct.  The PGA is also not off the hook as they sell way too many tickets and are fine with 35 or 40 thousand well oiled fans left to try to squeeze in to watch very few matches.