‘You Must Cheer when Europe miss putts’ Please tell me he did not say that

[Melvyn Morrow]

John

As usual you come out with some interesting comments. Golf was banned on TOC on Sunday because of Old Tom, there was a reason, but clearly that’s not worth mentioning as it’s the effect you are after, any relation to Azingers?

[John Kavanaugh]

John

As usual you come out with some interesting comments. Golf was banned on TOC on Sunday because of Old Tom, there was a reason, but clearly that’s not worth mentioning as it’s the effect you are after, any relation to Azingers?

Melvyn,

Did and or why did Old Tom want golf to be perfectly quiet during each stroke.

[Kalen Braley]

I think another disconnect when its comes to the of issue of insults should also be explained. I'm not saying its justified or has a place, but a little perspective never hurt.

American fans will insult anybody that isn't on thier side or they don't like.  Jack Nicklaus of all people used to get regularly get heckled as Fat Jack and Fat boy decades ago by Arnies army when they played head to head.  Where was this so-called decorum and civility back then?

As a bleacher bum at Oakland A's games during summer vacation,  I can't even count the number of outfielders from opposing teams who got constanlty razzed and ragged on by some of the most of hideous stuff you've ever heard.  One ever tried to come into the stands.

So the Euros need not be so sensitive about getting a few insults hurled thier way, because over here we even rag on our kind.  Really, don't take it personal, because its not.

[Dan_Callahan]

American fans will insult anybody that isn't on thier side or they don't like. 

Kalen,

I think it is accurate to say that American fans will insult anybody . . . even athletes they do like.

At the U.S. Open at Bethpage, some guy yelled to Mickelson as he walked up the fairway, "Hey Phil, what are those, A cups?"

I shot a mouthful of beer out my nose when I heard that.

I don't think the guy disliked Phil. In fact, he might have been a huge fan. But it was clearly just too perfect an observation to keep to himself.

[Kalen Braley]

Dan,

Exactly, and this is the point.  I think the Euros internalize this stuff instead of in one ear and out the other.  And when a player starts openly showing rabbit ears and sensitivity like Monty has done in the past, its only going to be open season on him and much much worse.

Once again, not agreeing with it, just saying the Euros would benefit to know its nothing personal.

[Chuck Brown]

Five-plus pages of comments.

And yet no one has quoted Azinger.  I think the alleged quote, "You must cheer when Europe miss putts," is almost certainly an erroneous and over-the-top misquote.

Let's go back.  Azinger's statement was made at a "pep rally."  God help us if we codify everything (anything) said at pep rallies.  I haven't seen video of the statement.  Significantly, a Google search reveals not much more than the Reuters story that led with the statement that "Capain Paul Azinger refused to apologize..." and even that story failed to quote Azinger.

Some people here have gotten it.  When, for instance, Garcia missed the four-footer that gave Kim his first hole, the crowd cheered.  Their side had won -- won the hole, that is.  They cheered for their victory on that hole.  And that was no doubt something that Captain Azinger expected and wanted to be cheered.  A victory on an important, early tone-setting hole.

In any event, it would be nice if someone could find the exact, true Azinger quote.  I know there was video at the pep rally; I've seen some of it.  Just not Azinger's statement which by itself probably didn't even seem newsworthy to most of the attendees.

Once again, I think the UK press will make much more of this than any sane person can imagine.  I've always thought that the UK tabloid press was one of the USA's main advantages in the Ryder Cup.

[John Mayhugh]

John M - many thanks - darn it, they need to show THAT stuff on TV!

And I have zero doubt that while the Americans try hard, the Euros win these battles of wits.  They do have far more experience.

 

We talked about the very same thing sitting there in the bleachers.  The atmosphere was competitive and friendly at the same time.  That seemed to me what the Ryder Cup should be all about.  I think people would enjoy seeing examples of this sort of spirit far more than some Jimmy Roberts essay. 

Here's a BBC blog post that talks about some of the entertainment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robhodgetts/2008/09/louisville_lip_part_five.html

I went over and talked for a few minutes with the guy who was sort of the group leader.  He's shown in the lower left hand corner of the picture (kind of a Monty-lookalike).  We had quite a few laughs and he complained about how by Sunday he didn't have much voice left.  Seemed like a great guy.  I just wish I could have had a beer with him. 

This won't be the last Ryder Cup I attend.

[Rich Goodale]

You are right, Chuck.  "British Journalism" is an oxymoron.

[Tom Huckaby]

John M. - that is FANTASTIC - many thanks for the link.  10&8 sounds about right to me.  It also sounds like it must have been a hell of a lot of fun.

TH

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Sean...the worst is in Manchester...clearly you never went to Millwall or Chelsea in the seventies...no comparison mate..
when the hooligan element was at it's worst there was nobody worse than those two sets of fans.
Even the United hard brigade did not want to venture into those territories.

I remember in about 1979, even the IRA stated that the hardest bunch in the UK were Millwall fans...but of course as we all know fans is not the right word.
As evidence became clearer into the mid eighties it was infiltration from the national front that created the majority of the problems, underf the so called name of football fans.

In fact, United were the first club to institue ID cards to rid the Stretford End of the national front troublemakers.

[Jason Topp]

Nonetheless, as soon as the results were in yesterday, there was no doubt that a chorus of complaints about american behavior would follow.  Additionally Europeans impose a double standard when reviewing player and fan behavior at these matches.  

Contrary to my expectations, I have seen little unfair criticism of the US participants or supporters this year. 

[Tim Bert]

I'd love to be a part of a US contingent that is hired to write spontaneous jingles and spar with the Euorpeans songwriters in 2010.  Do we know if we plans to send a singing group for the matches overseas, or do we really only do that when we're winning as implied?

[Kirk Gill]

How about these criticisms of Faldo from The Telegraph:

"Faldo's gamble on the big finish ... left Ian Poulter, Lee Westwood and Padraig Harrington, thrashing at thin air, their legs amputated by a hopelessly incontinent ego," it said.

The Telegraph said the Valhalla fallout would leave Faldo "about to pay the price of a lifetime of self serving, of devotion to the cult of the individual."


Wow. What kind of skewering would Azinger have suffered after a U.S. defeat? Anything like that? Anything so personal?

[John Kavanaugh]

Do we really need to rehash the Hal Sutton thrashing?  Azinger would have gotten a pass because he has had a tough road to hoe through his heath problems.  I can't recall Faldo ever getting a bad break, unless getting caught counts.

[John Kavanaugh]

Did anyone else see when Michael Jordan was rubbing the shoulders of Faldo just how tall Faldo looked.  Could that guy get any better looking, have won anymore championships, have more money or a great gig for the rest of his life.  What a safe target Faldo has become for the courageous pundits who try to pull him down.  Who cares what anyone says about the guy...I'm sure not Faldo.

[Dan_Callahan]

I remember seeing Faldo in person for the first time. It was at the Westchester CC, where he was playing in the Buick. He was talking to Greg Norman, who I always thought of as a pretty big guy. Faldo dwarfed him. He is very broad, and during his swing you can see his lats through his shirt.

As he hit balls, I was struck by how precise he was. Every iron took the same divot, every shot seemed to have the same trajectory, and at the end of about 45 minutes, he had a perfect 1 foot x 1 foot patch of divots.

I was also blown away by how weak his shots were. Given his size and the fact that the ball hit the center of his club face every time, I was shocked that he seemed to get no distance. He comes from a different generation where accuracy was more important than power. With little fellows like Sergio (and even Ty Tryon) near him absolutely smoking the ball, here big muscular Nick hitting his 8-iron about 145. I guess he just could never adapt to the modern bombers mentality, because physically he should have been hitting with the longest of them.

[Mark Pearce]

Many years ago I was in the express check-in queue at Heathrow behind a huge (both in height and breadth) man.  When he turned round I realised it was Faldo.  The only sportsman whose size has ever shocked me in the same way was Bob Willis, when I tried to get his autograph as a 12 year old (Willis was a cricketer, for those who have no idea who I'm talking about).  I've met several professional rugby players and whilst someare enormous, that's what I would expect, it's not what I expected from a golfer.

[George Pazin]

I remember seeing Faldo in person for the first time. It was at the Westchester CC, where he was playing in the Buick. He was talking to Greg Norman, who I always thought of as a pretty big guy. Faldo dwarfed him. He is very broad, and during his swing you can see his lats through his shirt.

As he hit balls, I was struck by how precise he was. Every iron took the same divot, every shot seemed to have the same trajectory, and at the end of about 45 minutes, he had a perfect 1 foot x 1 foot patch of divots.

I was also blown away by how weak his shots were. Given his size and the fact that the ball hit the center of his club face every time, I was shocked that he seemed to get no distance. He comes from a different generation where accuracy was more important than power. With little fellows like Sergio (and even Ty Tryon) near him absolutely smoking the ball, here big muscular Nick hitting his 8-iron about 145. I guess he just could never adapt to the modern bombers mentality, because physically he should have been hitting with the longest of them.

I seem to recall reading that Faldo was plenty long prior to his famous swing makeover. He traded erratic distance for consistent accuracy. If he had come out today, obviously he wouldn't have made the same adjustments. Some (including me) would argue that is what we've lost in the recent lust for distance.

Seems like the last few Ryder Cups have invalidated the strategy of saving your best players for the crunch time.

[Chuck Brown]

Faldo being savaged, mercilessly, by the UK newspapers, is the status quo ante.  Standard operating procedure.

I actually think that what would catch Nick off-guard and unprepared is if a British writer treated him with generosity and thoughtfulness.

[Kalen Braley]

Faldo being savaged, mercilessly, by the UK newspapers, is the status quo ante.  Standard operating procedure.

I actually think that what would catch Nick off-guard and unprepared is if a British writer treated him with generosity and thoughtfulness.

Coming to Faldo's defense, I can't think of anything he actually did in the matches that he should have done differently. I should qualify this by saying he should have picked Monty and Clarke for the team with 2 of his picks.

I'm just curious how it could be his fault when his 3 biggest stars all layed rotten eggs during the event. Was he supposed to hit the shots for them?

And to boot he made a great pic in Poulter who was argueably the brightest star from either team.

[Mark Pearce]

Faldo being savaged, mercilessly, by the UK newspapers, is the status quo ante.  Standard operating procedure.

I actually think that what would catch Nick off-guard and unprepared is if a British writer treated him with generosity and thoughtfulness.

Coming to Faldo's defense, I can't think of anything he actually did in the matches that he should have done differently. I should qualify this by saying he should have picked Monty and Clarke for the team with 2 of his picks.

I'm just curious how it could be his fault when his 3 biggest stars all layed rotten eggs during the event. Was he supposed to hit the shots for them?

And to boot he made a great pic in Poulter who was argueably the brightest star from either team.

Of course if he'd have picked Monty and Clarke, he couldn't have picked Poulter.  Anyway, Monty's form is so bad I don't think even he'd have picked himself.

[Tim Pitner]

I don't fully understand the criticism of Faldo's singles order.  They got 2 1/2 out of 4 points from the first 4 players (the only loss being Garcia's) so it's not like they played weak players first.  Based on their results, you can't say that playing Westwood or Harrington earlier would have guaranteed points.  The same people criticizing Faldo for playing Poulter too late were earlier saying he shouldn't have picked Poulter at all.  On paper, I'm sure the Europeans liked the singles match-ups.  As Faldo has correctly said, all they needed was for Hansen to have at least halved his match with Holmes and then the matches would have been decided by Westwood vs Curtis and Harrington vs Campbell--2 matches that, on paper, favored the Europeans. 

If I had been Faldo, I would have picked Clarke and Poulter, mostly because of Clarke's personality and his partnership with Westwood, but also because Casey isn't a very good putter, in my estimation.  Who knows whether that would have a difference. 

Faldo is an intimidating physical presence.  Sort of like Ernie Els, he's just outsized--tall and big. 

[Kalen Braley]

Mark,

My mistake...I didn't realize until I just looked it up that only the US went with 4 wild card picks.

So in light of that, I can't see any criticism because I think any captain would be estatic to get 4 combined points rom his two picks.  As it turned out Casey and Poulter got 5 points combined, so thats pretty darn good.

[Dale_McCallon]

Louisville's own Mr Mayhugh is dead on--experiencing the crowd made the Ryder Cup one of the most enjoyable sporting events I've ever attended.

I'm sure there were some loudmouths; with 40-45000 daily it would be impossible to not have a few, but I never witnessed anything over the top.  Good shots by Europeans were given proper credit, but of course people were rooting for the home team.

[Steve Lang]

  .. and why does the Mail put topless women pics on page 3??  does that seem to say it all about euro decorum..