How honest are most golfers?

[Rick Sides]

I posted a thread a few months back about the handicap system and I think my theory is correct that most golfers don't really shoot as well as they think or they lie a lot about scores.  I can't begin to tell you the number of times I see golfers either cheat or lie about thier score.  I was recently at my course practicing on the chipping area and I observed a gentleman spraying balls all over the chipping area and blasting balls out of the sand clear across the street. 5 minutes later he turns to his buddy who just walked over and he said to him, "my handicap is down to 7.2"  I had to laugh silently to myself.  If this guy carries a 7.2, then I'm packing my stuff and going to Q school.  So my question is, how honest are most golfers?

[David_Tepper]

They are about as honest as most people!

[Andy Troeger]

They are about as honest as most people!

That was exactly what I was thinking. Rick, I think you also kind of answered your own question 

[Rick Sides]

Right on the money David!

[jeffwarne]

I would say most are honest, many are not,
and an equal amount are delusional.



Delusional of course is what keeps me employed, and on the profitable side of many bets

[Jim Tang]

I would say it is 50/50.  I am probably somewhere around an 8, maybe a 10.  I used to play to a 5, as low as a 3.  It is difficult to watch your handicap head north and I'll probably never get it under a 5 again.  My all time best round is a 71 (-1) that I shot about 10 years ago.  I marked every stroke in that round, putted every single ball into the hole.  I am glad I did.  As my skills disolve, at least I can look back at that one, single day of golf and say without question....I was honest, that score is real.  It is a great thing to be able to say.  If I had cheated, mismarked my score, bumped the ball in the rough, today, I wouldn't be able to look at the round the same way.  And really, in that situation, the only person that would lose, is me.

[Ian_L]

I save my dad an average of 2-3 strokes when I play with him because he always thinks he shoots worse than he really does. (he doesn't carry an official handicap)

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Delusional of course is what keeps me employed, and on the profitable side of many bets

i take offense to that   

[Bob_Huntley]

I am afraid to say this but I would say, not very.

The number of rules broken in every four ball are manifest. The Mulligan off the first tee makes a mockery of the USGA GHIN system. Ninety nine per cent of all club scores are fraudulent. The dragging of the club away from the ball in the sand bunker is an especially egregious infraction.The identification and moving of the ball is commonplace....generally done completely wrong.

Quite frankly, I think that most score posted onthe Club computers are off by anything from two to six to strokes.


Bob

[Jed Peters]

The Mulligan off the first tee makes a mockery of the USGA GHIN system.

Bob

Hey, andy took 2 off the first and told me to as well.

Who was I to argue with THAT guy? You may be the only one at your club that would (and have the cred to back it up as well...)

[Adam Clayman]

I'm certain most of CB's subsequent disdain was rooted in this question. If he could see how Americans have devalued the principles of the sport, I'm sure he would regret ever turning Chicagoans onto it.

In an environment where tournaments are commonplace, the sandbaggers out numbers the delusional.

The reverse sandbagger, the ego capper, is another one of the primordial beasts golfers must battle.

Jack Whitaker once did a piece on the nature of golfers and man. The line I recall the most was something along the lines of how the most dishonest would never consider cheating at golf, while the pious and righteous can't control their desire to fudge.

[Steve Lang]

   Depends on:

- how much they've drunk..
- how big are the stakes
- how they like to play a game vs competitive sport
- how big the ego
- how they can pull off shots (regardless of score or handicap at the moment)

[Michael Powers]

Club golfers can be placed into 3 categories:

1/3 sandbaggers that do not post low scores or conveniently make double and triple bogies when their partner is making par or birdie.

1/3 reverse sandbaggers who do not post high scores or take newspaper pars.

1/3 have accurate indexes, post all of their scores and attempt to make the lowest score they can on every hole, in every round.

[Tony_Muldoon]

They are about as honest as most people!

A client of mine is studying for a Masters in Criminology.  He told me that the best anyone can figure is:

-aboout 10% of society choose to profit by whatever means they can and Laws are something you have to know about so that you don't get caught.

-about 10% of us try and live by every law and are very honest e.g. never speed or trouser more change than we're due etc etc etc.

The rest of us are somewhere in between.

[TX Golf]

I figure I would ask a question on this thread about the honesty of golfers after watching Sergio today. The question is regarding the rule that the official deemed legal. I was under the impression that when claiming a man made obstruction, you had to take your stance in the direction you intend to hit the ball. How is it then legal after the drop to turn around it hit it in a different direction. Is this how the rule is supposed to work?? If this is the case should the rule be changed so that is not allowed?? I think it should be changed.

Robert

[Sean_A]

I figure I would ask a question on this thread about the honesty of golfers after watching Sergio today. The question is regarding the rule that the official deemed legal. I was under the impression that when claiming a man made obstruction, you had to take your stance in the direction you intend to hit the ball. How is it then legal after the drop to turn around it hit it in a different direction. Is this how the rule is supposed to work?? If this is the case should the rule be changed so that is not allowed?? I think it should be changed.

Robert

Robert

To be fair, sometimes a favourable drop can change a guy's mind on what he will attempt for the next shot.  I don't know of a rule which prohibits someone from changing their minds.  For me, a better solution would be to keep the steps as an integral part of the course.  Why we feel that we should get a drop because we are next to steps etc is beyond me.  For instance, in the UK there seems to be a real divide between offering a drop off roads/paths or not.  While a guy may get screwed on a stoney path I still think it best to offer no free relief.  That is why I always found it strange that taking stones out of a bunker was very odd and I disagree with that as well.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Robert,

the rule allows the player to take relief if the obstruction is interfering with his swing, stance etc. If having taken the drop another option proves better then he is allowed to play it as he wants.

If you were to follow your way of thinking (morally correct, maybe) a player could decide to play a long shot over water from a good lie that was obstructed but after a drop find himself in a poorer lie from which the carry was no longer possible. If he were forced to play as he originally wanted then he would have to hit the ball into the water. I don't think this is what you intended either.

[TX Golf]

Jon,

Very true. I never thought of the that situation. I guess then the rule should stay as it is but I still find something wrong with taking a stance away from the hole to get relief and then turning towards the hole after the fortuitous drop.

Robert

[Dan_Callahan]

Back to honesty, perhaps my proudest moment as a high school golf coach came during a match that we lost. My number one player hit his ball into the woods to the right of the second hole at Yale. He went into the trees to play out. Because of the huge mounds on that side of the fairway, he was not in view of the rest of his group. Evidently, he took a practice swing and broke a small branch behind him. No one saw it or even suspected anything had happened. However, he came out, told everyone what had happened and assessed himself a two-stroke penalty. Those two strokes ended up being the difference in the match. It was one of the most honest acts I've ever seen from a 17-year-old kid.

[Richard Choi]

Does it matter if people fib on their handicap? Especially if they keep it lower than it should be?

Isn't the fact that they will lose all handicapped matches/tournament enough of a punishment?

If you want a vanity handicap, then go right ahead and post a low score. Handicaps only matter in tournaments and you are not going to be able to "excuse" yourself of anything during that time. It just elimnates a chunk of people from competing.

I rather count EVERY stroke that I take since it will only help me in tournaments.

[Bob_Huntley]

Does it matter if people fib on their handicap? Especially if they keep it lower than it should be?

Isn't the fact that they will lose all handicapped matches/tournament enough of a punishment?

If you want a vanity handicap, then go right ahead and post a low score. Handicaps only matter in tournaments and you are not going to be able to "excuse" yourself of anything during that time. It just elimnates a chunk of people from competing.

I rather count EVERY stroke that I take since it will only help me in tournaments.

Handicaps only matter in tournaments? Surely you jest. Without my strokes from Benham and Huckaby I would be drinking Chateau de Plonk not Romanee Conti.

Bob

[Tom Huckaby]

Does it matter if people fib on their handicap? Especially if they keep it lower than it should be?

Isn't the fact that they will lose all handicapped matches/tournament enough of a punishment?

If you want a vanity handicap, then go right ahead and post a low score. Handicaps only matter in tournaments and you are not going to be able to "excuse" yourself of anything during that time. It just elimnates a chunk of people from competing.

I rather count EVERY stroke that I take since it will only help me in tournaments.

Handicaps only matter in tournaments? Surely you jest. Without my strokes from Benham and Huckaby I would be drinking Chateau de Plonk not Romanee Conti.

Bob

So very true... and well said... I am still chuckling also...

 

[Brad Swanson]

I rather count EVERY stroke that I take since it will only help me in tournaments.

Handicaps only matter in tournaments? Surely you jest. Without my strokes from Benham and Huckaby I would be drinking Chateau de Plonk not Romanee Conti.

Bob

Bob, I believe you may be parsing that statement in fashion that was not intended by its author. 

Brad

[George Pazin]

Somewhat along the lines of what Richard posted, I think most are honest when they have to be. I take a lot of gimmes that I would prefer to putt out, and illegal drops as well, simply because I'm embarrassed to hold better players up.

But then again, I just play for fun, and rarely at that...and I'd guess many golfers are the same.

[Michael Powers]

I figure I would ask a question on this thread about the honesty of golfers after watching Sergio today. The question is regarding the rule that the official deemed legal. I was under the impression that when claiming a man made obstruction, you had to take your stance in the direction you intend to hit the ball. How is it then legal after the drop to turn around it hit it in a different direction. Is this how the rule is supposed to work?? If this is the case should the rule be changed so that is not allowed?? I think it should be changed.

Robert

Robert

To be fair, sometimes a favourable drop can change a guy's mind on what he will attempt for the next shot.  I don't know of a rule which prohibits someone from changing their minds.  For me, a better solution would be to keep the steps as an integral part of the course.  Why we feel that we should get a drop because we are next to steps etc is beyond me.  For instance, in the UK there seems to be a real divide between offering a drop off roads/paths or not.  While a guy may get screwed on a stoney path I still think it best to offer no free relief.  That is why I always found it strange that taking stones out of a bunker was very odd and I disagree with that as well.

Ciao

Sean,
Go one better.  Why are the steps there in the first place?