[Michael Dugger]

Recently, a thread was started which outlined many golfer's personal doak ratings.

I am curious what Tom thinks of every course built since the Confidential Guide, however  he has the good sense to be a bit more tight lipped than he use to

But what about the esteemed treehouse???

I am curious about "doak ratings" for modern courses...

So, if you have played something you think is worthy of say a 6 or above, please list the course and your "rating."

To kick things off, let's start here.....your personal doak rating for the following is what??

Sebonack GL
Friars Head
Kingsley Club
Rustic Canyon
Lakota Canyon
Ballyneal
Erin Hills
We Ko Pa Saguaro
Kingsbarns
Nanea
Dismal River
Chambers Bay
Calusa Pines

and, of course, any other course you deem a 6 or above....remember, there are no wrong answers, it's just your opinion....thank you for participating

[Rob Rigg]

Tetherow - 7.5 

[Kyle Henderson]

From your list:
Ballyneal 9.5 (The best I've seen, but I'm hoping another course out there will top it)
Lakota Canyon 7.5
Rustic Canyon 7
Dismal River 6.5

Other notables:
Sand Hills 9
Black Mesa 8.5
Pebble Beach 8.5
Tobacco Road 8.5
MPCC-Shore  8
Pasatiempo 7.5
Riviera 7.5
Darkhorse 7
Monarch Dunes 7
Spyglass Hill 7
Tot Hill Farm 7

[Gene Greco]

      Michael:


                  Tom D has given a couple of Doak 10s to two modern courses, Sand Hills and Pacific Dunes.

He posted this in the "Perfect 10s: Do they exist?" thread and has mentioned this a couple of other times.

However, he hasn't stated whether or not he has upgraded any other moderns to a 10.     

[Adam Clayman]

From what I hear Longshadow is worthy. Dismal river in its original form was a Doak zero now I doubt its a 5. Greywalls is also a very strong contender to receive a very high #.

[John Kavanaugh]

From your list:
Ballyneal 9.5 (The best I've seen, but I'm hoping another course out there will top it)
Lakota Canyon 7.5
Rustic Canyon 7
Dismal River 6.5

Other notables:
Sand Hills 9
Black Mesa 8.5
Pebble Beach 8.5
Tobacco Road 8.5
MPCC-Shore  8
Pasatiempo 7.5
Riviera 7.5
Darkhorse 7
Monarch Dunes 7
Spyglass Hill 7
Tot Hill Farm 7

Doak did not give have points.  Grow a set and get off the fence.

[Michael Dugger]

From your list:
Ballyneal 9.5 (The best I've seen, but I'm hoping another course out there will top it)
Lakota Canyon 7.5
Rustic Canyon 7
Dismal River 6.5

Other notables:
Sand Hills 9
Black Mesa 8.5
Pebble Beach 8.5
Tobacco Road 8.5
MPCC-Shore  8
Pasatiempo 7.5
Riviera 7.5
Darkhorse 7
Monarch Dunes 7
Spyglass Hill 7
Tot Hill Farm 7

Doak did not give have points.  Grow a set and get off the fence.

Nice, John, you tell him.

Kyle's list illuminates something and that is I'm only seeking modern courses here....everything POST Confidential Guide

[Tom Huckaby]

My opinions on modern courses I have played...

Ballyneal - 9
Rustic Canyon - 8
Kingsbarns - 8
Colorado Golf Club - 7
Sand Hills - 10
Pacific Dunes - 10
Bandon Dunes - 8
Bandon Trails - 9
Cuscowilla - 8

That's all I can think of....

[Jed Peters]

From your list:
Ballyneal 9.5 (The best I've seen, but I'm hoping another course out there will top it)
Lakota Canyon 7.5
Rustic Canyon 7
Dismal River 6.5

Other notables:
Sand Hills 9
Black Mesa 8.5
Pebble Beach 8.5
Tobacco Road 8.5
MPCC-Shore  8
Pasatiempo 7.5
Riviera 7.5
Darkhorse 7
Monarch Dunes 7
Spyglass Hill 7
Tot Hill Farm 7

Kyle, where do you put Morgan Creek?

[Tom Huckaby]

Jed, if you don't mind, I'll answer that....

Morgan Creek - 6

I know you think of it as higher, but read the definition of 6... that's not a knock at all.  It is a pretty damn good course.

TH

[Chip Gaskins]

Mine...

Ballyneal 9
Pacific Dunes 9
World Woods 7
Caves Valley 6
Tobacco Road 8
Royal New Kent 6
Mayacama 7
Dismal River 6
Cabo Del Sol 7
Bandon Dunes 7
Ocean Course 7
Sawgrass 6
Bandon Trails 9
European Club 7
Pumpkin Ridge 6
RTJ 7
Wild Horse 7

[Tom Huckaby]

Chip - that gives me a few more I can add...

World Woods 7
Caves Valley 7 (I really did like that place!)
Mayacama 8
Cabo del Sol Ocean 8
Cabo del Sol Desert 8
Wild Horse 8

I think I am an easy grader.   

[Michael Dugger]

If everyone can keep this thread going I'll compile the collective stats......it could be interesting......

My entries are somewhat limited to the NW but I'll offer up

Pac Dunes 9 (can't be a 10 because it's too new)((just sticking with the rules put forth by the founder of this system!))
Bandon Dunes 7.5
Bandon Trails 8
Bandon Crossings 6
Chambers Bay 7
Aldarra 6
Tetherow 7.5
Pronghorn Faz 7.5
Pronghown Nick. 6
Juniper GC 5.5

[Tom Huckaby]

Michael - we discussed the definition of 10 on this site, and I do not recall Tom D. limiting it such that courses that are too new cannot get such number.  What I personally - Tom Huckaby - my claim to fame in golf - did get him to do is clarify the "if you missed one hole you'd be missing something" issue... this does NOT mean all 18 holes have to be fabulous.... dammit I forget the Huckaby Corollary wording, but it was good.

 

So I do believe PD can get a 10.  But perhaps the creator will see this and opine.

TH

[Patrick Boyd]

My list of courses played worth a mention:

Cypress Point                            10
San Francisco Golf Club      9
Chambers Bay             7
Franklin Hills CC            8
Holston Hills            8
CC of Chattanooga         7
Shoreacres            8
Camargo Club            8
Fox Chapel               7
Greenbriar: Old White         8
Lookout Mountain          8
Meadow Club            7
Pasatiempo            8
Yale GC               8 (with a little love definitely would be a 9)
Lawsonia: Links Course      8
Bandon Dunes            7
Erin Hills               8
Homestead: The Cascade Course   8
Huntingdon Valley CC         7
Ballyneal                     9
Pacific Dunes            10
Pine Valley                         10
Bandon Trails            8
Sand Hills                     10
Bayonne GC            8
Kirtland GC            8
Pebble Beach            9

[Tim Leahy]

From your list:
Ballyneal 9.5 (The best I've seen, but I'm hoping another course out there will top it)
Lakota Canyon 7.5
Rustic Canyon 7
Dismal River 6.5

Other notables:
Sand Hills 9
Black Mesa 8.5
Pebble Beach 8.5
Tobacco Road 8.5
MPCC-Shore  8
Pasatiempo 7.5
Riviera 7.5
Darkhorse 7
Monarch Dunes 7
Spyglass Hill 7
Tot Hill Farm 7

Kyle you are too tough on Spyglass, Riviera and Pebble. If those courses aren't 9's then you must be like a cat and have several lifetimes to see them. I do tend to ignore the "no weaknesses" part because I would reserve that for a 10 if that exists, but my golf life would be incomplete if I had never played Pebble, Spyglass or Riviera.

[Rob Rigg]

If we should not be giving 1/2s I will bump Tetherow up to an 8 

[Adam Clayman]

Interesting that these three courses Pebble, Spy, and, The Riv have all had recent changes made to their GCA that arguably hurt their quality. Sure they're just little changes, but in my way of understanding matters, it's the little things that make the big ones work.
 

[Kyle Henderson]

From your list:
Ballyneal 9.5 (The best I've seen, but I'm hoping another course out there will top it)
Lakota Canyon 7.5
Rustic Canyon 7
Dismal River 6.5

Other notables:
Sand Hills 9
Black Mesa 8.5
Pebble Beach 8.5
Tobacco Road 8.5
MPCC-Shore  8
Pasatiempo 7.5
Riviera 7.5
Darkhorse 7
Monarch Dunes 7
Spyglass Hill 7
Tot Hill Farm 7

Doak did not give have points.  Grow a set and get off the fence.

No. I'll do as I please.

[Kyle Henderson]

From your list:
Ballyneal 9.5 (The best I've seen, but I'm hoping another course out there will top it)
Lakota Canyon 7.5
Rustic Canyon 7
Dismal River 6.5

Other notables:
Sand Hills 9
Black Mesa 8.5
Pebble Beach 8.5
Tobacco Road 8.5
MPCC-Shore  8
Pasatiempo 7.5
Riviera 7.5
Darkhorse 7
Monarch Dunes 7
Spyglass Hill 7
Tot Hill Farm 7

Kyle, where do you put Morgan Creek?

Probably about a 6.5 (same range as Stevinson Ranch and Saddle Creek, if you want local comparisons). Morgan Creek is BY FAR the best course I've played within 30 minutes of downtown Sacramento.

[Jed Peters]

Probably about a 6.5 (same range as Stevinson Ranch and Saddle Creek, if you want local comparisons). Morgan Creek is BY FAR the best course I've played within 30 minutes of downtown Sacramento.

LOL. That's not sayin' much!

You think Darkhorse is better, eh?

I will say this--they DEFINATELY have better terrain to work with there....makes for more interesting holes.

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle you are too tough on Spyglass, Riviera and Pebble. If those courses aren't 9's then you must be like a cat and have several lifetimes to see them. I do tend to ignore the "no weaknesses" part because I would reserve that for a 10 if that exists, but my golf life would be incomplete if I had never played Pebble, Spyglass or Riviera.

I might be convinced to bump Pebble a tad, perhaps Riviera as well (in it's original form it must have been a dazzling specimen- solid 9). There's no way I'd bump Spyglass. It's a solid course with plenty of high points, but only a couple of the forest holes register highly on my funometer. The setting is tremendous, and frankly a 7 is a very good score. What did Doak give it?

I've played the Olympic Club and that failed to reach a 7 on my scale for many of the same reasons Spyglass slipped down my scale. After a solid front nine, the course throws a repetetive series of long Par 4s at that pose the same challenges over and over. No shot game creativity is allowed, much less rewarded.

Unless you think I'm more than a full point off, I don't think we're really far enough apart to worry about haggling. There's a standard deviation in personal taste, I say.

[Kyle Henderson]

Probably about a 6.5 (same range as Stevinson Ranch and Saddle Creek, if you want local comparisons). Morgan Creek is BY FAR the best course I've played within 30 minutes of downtown Sacramento.

LOL. That's not sayin' much!

You think Darkhorse is better, eh?

I will say this--they DEFINATELY have better terrain to work with there....makes for more interesting holes.

Yeah. The terrain and the variety of the par 3s at Darkhorse give it the edge, IMHO. Morgan Creek has better par 5s and green complexes. It's close...

Phillips definitely did more with less at Morgan Creek

[Tim Leahy]

Kyle and Jed, I would put Rancho Murieta-North over both DH and MC.

[Mike Boehm]

Pacific Dunes - 10
Bandon Dunes - 9
Arcadia Bluffs - 9
Bandon Trails - 8
Tobacco Road - 8
Forest Dunes - 8
Tullymore - 7
Caledonia - 7
True Blue - 7
Wuskowhan - 7

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