David,
I also thought that the Bottle hole was inspired by a hole at Sunningdale.
Yes. I had forgotten this, but added it in a note above.
I also believe that you're incorrect in that a left side carry over the centerline bunker complex leaves the golfer with a prefered approach in terms of angle of attack, slope of the fairway and elevation, all of which are more favorable from left of the centerline bunker complex.
You lose me here. I haven't played the hole enough to take a strong position on which option is better, so I'll take your word for it, but I cannot figure what your word is in the sentence above.
I think # 8 at NGLA is one of THE great holes in golf.
No argument here.
Your photos don't do justice to the elevation changes from tee to fairway and from fairway to green.
Nor do they reflect the terror in the golfer's mind when the hole is cut to the far right of the green.
It's truely a frightening hole location.
. . .
What your photos also miss is the effect of the wind, which is almost in constant attendance, on the hole.
The feeding nature of the front of the green and the area fronting the green are also missed.
It's one of the great holes in golf, one of my all time favorites.
Again no argument here. I am not sure photographs would ever depict what you describe, and mine surely don't. But I remembered I had them so I thought I'd throw them up for those not familiar with the hole. Great golf holes are often difficult to capture on film, which maybe why those primarily concerned with aesthetics don't generally design or build great golf holes.
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I have a feeling that most of the people on this thread have read this article, but I hadn't. It's from the August 23rd 1908 edition of the New York Tribune, and praises the still-being-built NGLA. I don't know how to copy and paste the article, and it's a long one, so here are some snippets (with a reference to the Bottle hole at the end)
". . .
With the exception of this ninth hole, those thus far described have been imitation* of holes abroad. There is also another partial imitation, the eighteenth, which is something like the Bottle hole. In length it is 480 yards, the drive being from a rather high tee over low ground formerly covered with water. The approach is over a bunker, and the green will be 125 feet across...."
Peter, I think the author may have been confused about the last hole described. Judging from the other numbers, the bottle would have been the 17th, and was around 386 yards. Not sure what to make of the rest of the description, whether he is otherwise describing the bottle or the Long (which does not have a bunker to carry on the approach.)
I think the author may be cribbing from another article as some of the description is very familiar, but I can't think of which one off-hand.
The PN bunker was not part of the original design but was added as players began hitting their tee shots beyond the original bunkers.
Interesting, George. I presume that the last pair of flanking bunkers were not included (as seen in Whigham's conceptual diagram) was that the drives were not even carrying to the last bunkers? Was this the case?
What can you tell us about the evolution of the greenside bunkers? I recall you have an older photo in your book of the green with similar greenside bunkering, but I don't recall what year the photo was from.
Are you sure that the tee was originally to the left of the seventh green? When?
Speaking of aesthetics, my first thought on seeing the pictures was how out of place and unnatural the mounding looks. Is that true in person?
Really? I think the hole is absolutely stunning visually. Would you feel the same way if they dressed up these mounds and bunkers with whispy fescue? Would a natural bunker look natural if one mowed all of the grass around it?
In my experience, natural ground is rarely completely flat and smooth but is often pocked with mounds, holes, and ridges. I love the
showing the bones look of some of the holes at NGLA, and find that they play better as well. Few things are more frustrating than missing a fairway bunker but not being able to find one's ball in the overgrown fescue around it.
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Below is an article from the April 6, 1910 edition of the Christian Science Monitor. You will notice that it contains the thoughts of John Sutherland, of Royal Dornoch fame. It is also apparent that the routing progression was considered numbered as it is today. I don't know when the idea was to flip the nines and when that was reversed. I always thought the routing progression began with the nines reversed from today's routing.
I believe that they originally intended to play out of an Inn over by the current 10th hole, so most of the early descriptions had the first hole as the current 10th. They flipped the 9s sometime after the Inn burned down (in 1909 I think, but it may also have burned down a few years before.) So Sutherland's article must have been written sometime after the Inn burned down.
What is interesting is that in the July 1910 tournament, the course began at what is now the 10th, but this was after the Sutherland article. Perhaps they started on the other side of the property because the clubhouse was under construction. (Macdonald noted that they had to use a tent as their clubhouse for the tournament.)
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