[Patrick_Mucci]

Several holes come to mind, the 4th at Seawane, a drivable par 4, and the 18th at Rockaway River a par 5.

The feature on each hole has a unique application

At Seawane, the drive is a forced carry over the canal and the green is reachable from the tee.  There is a "Lion's Mouth" type bunker in the center of the fairway and tall fescue left of the fairway.

At Rockaway River the carry is forced on the second shot.
But, the decision off the tee is interesting.
The longer the drive, the more accurate you must be, and the closer you can get to the green with your second shot.
If you lay back of the tee, in the interest of accuracy, you're faced with a longer second and a longer carry over the river.

Both holes present unique challenges to the golfer.

Both holes are intimidating.
Especially if there's a breeze or good wind, which is prevalent at Seawane.

What other holes employ a diagonal water hazard that traverses the entire hole/fairway ?

Are they mostly left to right diagonals or right to left diagonals ?

How do they affect the play of the hole ?

[Sean Leary]

6 at Stonewall Old. Longer carry to the right. Excellent hole.

[TX Golf]

I don't recall the hole (I believe it is on the back nine) but at La Costa there is a great diagonal water hazard. I believe it is the 14th. I remember that it gave the tour pros some issues.

Robert

[Bart Bradley]

Patrick:

I assume this is the sort of hole you'd like to discuss?

Ran's photo of #13 Grandfather.




There are actually several holes at Grandfather that employ the angled crossing creek.  Interestingly they do generally angle from left (closest to the tee box) to right.  On the hole above the angle creates a tremendous amount of strategy in conjuction with the tree on the right.  The tree makes you want to stay left but since the creek is closer on the left you are forced to lay back and create a longer approach if you want to be sure the tree will not affect your approach angle.  The same dilemma you describe exists here..the shorter you want your approach the more accurate you must be...just left of the tree on the right.  The creek also seems to come into play a great deal if the tee ball ends up in the deep rough.  See photos of #15 on Ran's review of Grandfather  to see another diagonal creek...but it runs from right to left.

Secondly, our Irish are looking decent.  GO IRISH.

Bart

[Andy Troeger]

#11 and #14 at Muirfield Village both use the diagonal creek very well, although #11 is an interesting application with the creek actually being straight and hole twisting around it to create diagonals.

#6 at The Golf Club uses this feature, I believe there is a photo in Ran's profile.

Others off the top of my head:
#7 at Wolf Run
#6 at Double Eagle
#18 at Lakota (kind of--another odd application but it seems to apply)
#17 at #18 at Forest Highlands Canyon
#17 at Willow Creek (Utah)
#2 at Paa-Ko Ridge

[Ian_L]

#18 at Half Moon Bay Golf Links (Old)

[TEPaul]

Pat:

There are so many of those types of diagonal water hazards clear across holes as to be pretty hard to know where to begin.

One that comes to mind is the 12th hole at HVGC. I mention it because without too much effort, it could be made so much better and definitely so much more strategically optional. And, in my opinion, THAT is almost always the point and the goal with most any golf hole. 

[Ed Oden]

#6 at Charlotte CC.  A creek angles away from the tee from left to right.  The typical play is an iron or fairway wood off the tee to stay short of the creek, although it can be carried downwind.  Staying left leaves a longer approach but is a better angle to the green.  Conversely, playing to the right leaves a shorter approach but worse angle since you have to play directly over the bunkers.  Here is a view of the approach from the left side of the fairway:

[rchesnut]

Pasatiempo #11

[Andy Troeger]

Pasatiempo #11

and #12 really. Those are better examples than half the ones I included. Good catch!

[Jim Nugent]

Carnoustie #17:
]


Everyone I saw (on TV) at the 2007 British Open laid up.  Romero made 8 here the last round and bogeyed the last hole too.  Yet he missed the playoff by only 1 stroke, after a final 18 holes that included 10 birdies IIRC.  Is that a record for a major? 

[Patrick_Mucci]

The question is:

Does the diagonal water hazard affect strategy and play ?

If it just looks nice, it's a non-factor.

Which diagonal water hazards affect the golfer's decision and play ?

And, HOW

[Bill Brightly]

Mention diagonal water hazard and I always thing of Plainfield's Par 5 12th, one of my favorite holes anywhere. The water does not come in to play until your second shot, but man, does it ever come into play! Here is Ran's picture of a golfer who has chose to conservatively lay up on his second shot:





The green complex is so good, with several small sections, that you really want to be hitting a wedge or less for your third shot.


 

The problem is, the only safe lay up is 150 or more. Ross used the stream/ditch to reduce the size of the "long lay up" in front of the green.  So if you expect to have any chance of even hitting the lay up target, you have got to hit a good drive in the fairway, then hit a "green-sized" lay-up area. The golfer above got it far enough to be in short wedge range to really attack the pin.

The water is DEFINITELY on your mind on the tee shot. I'd say this is an example of water "coming into play" before it is in play, know what I mean?
 

[Jerry Kluger]

Pat: One of the interesting features of the diagonal water hazard, at least as far as I understand it, is if it is marked as a lateral hazard then the player can drop from either side of the hazard provided he is no closer to the hole.  I don't know what determines if it should be designated a lateral hazard but when it is, there is a significant difference in your options should your ball wind up finding it. 

The diagonal hazard obviously impacts the play of the hole when it comes into play off the tee, but it also can be very effective in how one plays a hole if it is close to the green.  There, the pin position can often dictate whether the player will challenge the hazard or play a more conservative route and perhaps find chipping from a diagonal liine off the green the more sensible option than going at the pin.

 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill,

I think that's a great example.

It incorporates risk/reward very well.

Lay back and you have a dicey approach to a narrow green flanked by a hazard.

Go for it and you risk the creek, but, a successful attempt leaves a short wedge and a birdie opportunity.

[Craig Disher]

Pat,
The first instance of this idea - and I'd like to hear a counter example since this has become a folk legend - is the 11th hole at Littlestone, created by WL Purves in 1898. The hole is a rectangle with a narrow drainage canal cutting from the upper left corner to the lower right; the tee is at the lower left, the green at the upper right. The left side of the hazard has been filled in with rough which has taken away some of the options.

The green, sitting at the upper right corner of the rectangle, is protected on its left side by bunkers cut into a low ridge. This feature affected a drive up the left side of the hazard (while it was still fairway) since an approach, if it cleared the bunkers, would receive a turbo boost and run either into the rough off the green or a bunker on the right.

The prevailing wind is directly down the fairway but the occasional sea breeze or NE gale in the winter adds another dimension entirely.

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