[Brad Tufts]

http://www.commongroundgc.blogspot.com/

The new Renaissance Design reno. just east of downtown Denver...

Lots of construction pics to look at on a week-by-week basis...looks subtle, wide, and interesting.

I think they look to open next Spring/Summer...$40 for CGA members, $50 for others.

[Tim Pitner]

I just looked at a few photos on the link Brad provided and my initial reaction was . . . surprise.  It looks like very little shaping was done on the previously dead-flat site.  I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but it did surprise me.  I wondered whether a Rawls course-type approach would have been used here, although the budget was obviously different.  I'm anxious to check it out. 

[Sean Leary]

Not sure about the name. Get the idea, but not sure I like it.

[Tom_Doak]

Tim:

We are going for "surprise".

This is a $40 public golf course built on a $4 million budget on a fairly plain piece of ground.  It was easy to understand from the beginning that we couldn't spend a lot of money trying to make it sexy, so our approach was simply not to think about that.  We just tried to find a routing that provided a good variety of holes, and then build simple greens and bunkers that would make it interesting for good players without beating up the public.

The bunkers are deliberately un-flashy.  I've been wanting to do a course like that for some time, because so many other new courses are building flashy bunkers, but we had to wait for a client who didn't care [too much] about magazine covers.

I am in Denver this week, working on Cherry Hills, and walked the new course on Sunday.  The grow-in appears to be going nicely and they should be on track for opening around Memorial Day 2009.  I don't expect many on GCA to be going all goo-goo about the design, but we are very pleased to be part of an affordable public golf course in a major metropolitan area.  Who knows, maybe we'll start a trend ... golf needs more courses like this one, and I think we'll prove that it's possible to create one without it being part of a real estate deal.

[Brad Swanson]

Speaking as a former Denver publinxer, this looks to be a nice addition to an already solid line-up of affordable courses around the metro area.  I'm guessing the other Doak design that was in the works a number of years back east of I25 (near Castle Pines Golf Club) is on hiatus (permanent?)?

Brad

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Now playing: Jerry Douglas, Russ Barenberg, Edgar Meyer - From Ankara To Izmir
via FoxyTunes

[Tom_Doak]

Brad S:  The other course you refer to was The Canyons, which is indeed on hiatus until further notice.  That client saw the housing downturn coming, 2 1/2 years ago.  They say they'll still build it someday, when things turn back around, but judging from our recent lack of contact they must still think it will be a while.

[Eric Smith]

Thanks for the link Brad.

Lowry is a really cool place, my aunt and uncle live there, next to the air and space museum.  This is a place I would love to call home.  We'll be taking the kids out for a visit next summer and I can't wait to play CommonGround.  Thanks Tom Doak and the Renaissance team!

[Tim Pitner]

This is a $40 public golf course built on a $4 million budget on a fairly plain piece of ground.  It was easy to understand from the beginning that we couldn't spend a lot of money trying to make it sexy, so our approach was simply not to think about that.  We just tried to find a routing that provided a good variety of holes, and then build simple greens and bunkers that would make it interesting for good players without beating up the public.

The bunkers are deliberately un-flashy.  I've been wanting to do a course like that for some time, because so many other new courses are building flashy bunkers, but we had to wait for a client who didn't care [too much] about magazine covers.

I am in Denver this week, working on Cherry Hills, and walked the new course on Sunday.  The grow-in appears to be going nicely and they should be on track for opening around Memorial Day 2009.  I don't expect many on GCA to be going all goo-goo about the design, but we are very pleased to be part of an affordable public golf course in a major metropolitan area.  Who knows, maybe we'll start a trend ... golf needs more courses like this one, and I think we'll prove that it's possible to create one without it being part of a real estate deal.

Tom,

I like the approach and I too applaud Renaissance for its involvement in this project.  As I said, I'm definitely looking forward to the opening (and to taking advantage of the kids' course as well). 

[Ryan Farrow]

Tom, were you going for more of a throwback style bunker here, I'm thining Garden City, Skoike-ish  or were you more focused on creating easily maintainable sand boxes?

Novel concept, although none of the pictures will really get anyone excited, but it would be interesting to see in person.

[Tom_Doak]

Ryan:

Eric, Jim and Don decided early on that Chicago Golf Club style greens and bunkers would be a decent model for the course and different than anything in Denver.

I said okay to that provided that they DIDN'T use any of the Macdonald/Raynor template holes but just built that style of features.  [They only cheated on this twice -- #3 green is a Macdonald-style punchbowl at the end of a long par five, and #15 green is a bit Road-hole-ish.]

In the end, we were not wedded to that style and there is quite a variety of greens and bunkers.  There's nothing really deep like Myopia, but a lot of the bunkers are pretty small or skinny, so you can be right up against the bank with a difficult extraction.  There are a handful inside the fairways that could be imported from Scotland or Garden City.

[Mike_Cirba]

After playing High Pointe recently, I have to say that I'm more intrigued by CommonGround than virtually any other course being constructed today...certainly more so than the "big" projects at Tetherow, Rock Creek, and even Sugarloaf Mountain and Olde Macdonald.

I say this because much more so than the latter, I think the former really needs to be the model of golf going forward if the game is to grow and thrive.   By that I mean we need reasonable, affordable, sanely designed public courses close to large population centers, and we need them to be inexpensive to build and maintain.

To me, this is much more of a challenge to the skills of an architect than some wild outlands property and a nearly unlimited budget and grandiose landforms to play with.   

I'm especially intrigued because CommonGround is on flattish ground, which is much more common than interesting land.   

I've often wondered why the model of Garden City couldn't be built almost anywhere, although GCGC does have the advantage of sandy soil.   Still, simply looking at it from a minimalistic, strategically interesting course on boring terrain, it should serve as a model we can learn from.

My hope is that CommonGround is perhaps a scaled-back model that others can emulate going forward.   I was already considering heading to Colorado next summer on a golf trip before I knew that this was being built.   This cinches it.

[Tim Pitner]

I say this because much more so than the latter, I think the former really needs to be the model of golf going forward if the game is to grow and thrive.   By that I mean we need reasonable, affordable, sanely designed public courses close to large population centers, and we need them to be inexpensive to build and maintain.

Mike,

I think I mostly agree with your point but, honestly, you don't need people with the talent of Doak and Co. to build what you describe--most municipal courses fit the bill of "reasonable, affordable, sanely designed and inexpensive to build and maintain."  The real trick is to make such courses interesting to play and, hopefully, Renaissance has delivered on that. 

[Mike_Cirba]

Tim,

Yes, that IS the real trick, and that's why I'm really intrigued to see what these guys did on boring ground at CommonGround.    I'm thinking that the Garden City model is vastly underutilized.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tim,
I think you really do need people with similar talents to a Doak & Co. when building these courses.

It all goes back to the ethic of what makes life long players, not just 'golfers'.
If the same, or nearly the same, quality of architecture was produced on public courses when golf was brought to this country we'd have a lot more (or a lot less) to talk about on a site like this.

Going forward, I don't think money shouldn't be wasted on mediocre crap when for a few dollars more you can give people a product they won't tire of, and stay proud of, for as long as they use it.

[Tim Leahy]

Definitely not Rustic Canyon II. NCGA and SCGA courses are much more interesting.

[Tim Pitner]

Tim,
I think you really do need people with the talent of a Doak & Co. when building theses courses.

It all goes back to the ethic of what makes life long players, not just 'golfers'.
If the same, or nearly the same, quality of architecture was produced on public courses when golf was brought to this country we'd have a lot more (or a lot less) to talk about on a site like this.

Going forward, I don't think money shouldn't be wasted on mediocre crap when for a few dollars more you can give people a product they won't tire of, and stay proud of, for as long as they use it.

Jim,

My point was simply that Mike's post didn't mention the "quality" component--his list of attributes seemed to describe most municipal courses.  I totally agree with you (as does Mike, I believe) that it's a breath of fresh air to have architects as talented as Renaissance working on a modest site and hopefully producing an enjoyable and unique golf course. 

[Mike_Cirba]

Tim Leahy

Could you elaborate for those of us outside the region?

[Tim Leahy]

The NCGA-Poppy HIlls, Poppy Ridge and SCGA-Temecula courses were built or chosen as landmark courses with rolling terain and challenging holes, while the CGA looks just like another flat muni. It seems like the CGA could have spent more money on it's namesake course. Rustic Canyon is a $40 course also and look what they have done there or at Olivas Park in Ventura.

[Tim Pitner]

Tim Leahy,

I've played Poppy Ridge and I wouldn't hold that up as an example of excellent design.  I'll grant that the photos of CommonGround don't look overly exciting, but there may be more there than meets the eye in these photos (I would bet on that).  Remember also that CommonGround is located very near the downtown of a major city--quite different from Poppy Hills, Poppy Ridge or Rustic Canyon. 

[Tom_Doak]

Tim Leahy:

No, Common Ground is certainly no Poppy Hills or Poppy Ridge (though I haven't seen the latter).  It's a lower budget, lower-priced course and not an "experience" and the CGA is not trying to make a bunch of money out of the deal ... they are in it to provide AFFORDABLE golf. 

But, I think the golf will be just as interesting as those two.  I'll leave Rustic Canyon out of it, since it's not really an association course.

Again, their motivations are different.  They are not trying to bring tourists to the Aurora / Denver line, and I would never recommend that someone coming from Philadelphia should come to Colorado to see this course.  Mr. Cirba is an exception because he is interested to see what we could do with a very plain site, and I'm happy to say I think we've done well by it.  I doubt it would ever rate more than a 5 or 6 on the Doak scale ... but there aren't many 5's or 6's that cost $40.

[Eric_Terhorst]

The NCGA-Poppy HIlls...built or chosen as landmark courses with rolling terain

Really?  Then imo the opportunity was squandered in the implementation

NCGA members once long ago had virtually unlimited access to Spyglass.  Poppy Hills as a replacement was a disappointment.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

I'm also very interested to see just how good a course can be built on boring ground without much earthmoving or other visual histrionics.

I suspect that a very good one will be built.

[Mike_Cirba]

Alright, alright....I'll admit it!

I'm really flying to Denver to find any remaining remnants of Arnold Palmer & Ed Seay's South Course at Broadmoor, which tragically was redesigned before its time.   

After all...who the hell would fly halfway across the country to see a $40 muni?      


Seriously...maybe I'm just weird but I can't believe you can look at the pictures of CommonGround and not be intrigued.   

Have we become so enamored and jaded by BIG, BOLD, standout features that we're missing the fine details and the BIG picture?

[Scott Sander]

I logged more rounds than I care to remember at Mira Vista, so I'm excited to see what CommonGround feels like.  It's sure to be a vast improvement.

The location alone will probably assure it endless rounds, but on the point of price, the greens fees are not stunningly low for the area.

IIRC Riverdale Dunes, Murphy Creek, and Saddle Rock are all less expensive - and places like Buffalo Run and Heritage Eagle Bend are in the same ballpark.

That said, none of those offer a place for families to grow into the game together.

There are several family-friendly places (Centennial, Springhill, the Family Fun center), but none have courses that excite the avid player.  CommonGround could be really cool in that way.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tim:

We are going for "surprise".

This is a $40 public golf course built on a $4 million budget on a fairly plain piece of ground.  It was easy to understand from the beginning that we couldn't spend a lot of money trying to make it sexy, so our approach was simply not to think about that.  We just tried to find a routing that provided a good variety of holes, and then build simple greens and bunkers that would make it interesting for good players without beating up the public.

The bunkers are deliberately un-flashy.  I've been wanting to do a course like that for some time, because so many other new courses are building flashy bunkers, but we had to wait for a client who didn't care [too much] about magazine covers.

I am in Denver this week, working on Cherry Hills, and walked the new course on Sunday.  The grow-in appears to be going nicely and they should be on track for opening around Memorial Day 2009.  I don't expect many on GCA to be going all goo-goo about the design, but we are very pleased to be part of an affordable public golf course in a major metropolitan area.  Who knows, maybe we'll start a trend ... golf needs more courses like this one, and I think we'll prove that it's possible to create one without it being part of a real estate deal.

Very, very, very cool, Tom and co.

Personally, I really like the simple, restrained look of this course in the photos I've seen; especially by comparison with so much contemporary golf architecture. So often these days golf courses are "over-cooked".

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