Hardest Courses in the World on and around the putting surface

[John Shimp]

I'd nominate Grandfather Golf and Country Club in Linville, NC.  Played yesterday and found the greens devilish to stop approaches and pitch/chips near the holes due to green slopes and speed variance of pitching into the  mountain, versus along, versus down the mountain.  Greens appear to be simple surfaces but each contains relatively easy to extremely hard locations.  I never got comfortable putting due to the extreme break and speed variances (medium fast uphill and really fast down).  Also the mountain pull causes certain putts to have a ton of break and others to have less than exspected.  Surfaces are in superb condition; mostly bent with poa mixed in. 

The rap on Grandfather is that it is brutal tee to green.  I haven't found that to be the case if one avoids the driver on the right holes and can swing it out there.  The greens though deserve a lot of praise on how they resist low scores.

Other ideas?  Augusta and #2 clearly belong in the discussion, but Grandfather to me outdoes some other typical top-10 courses I've played.

[George Freeman]

Of the courses I've played, Crystal Downs and the Kingsley Club both had very challenging and unique greens and green surrounds which created a plethora of different shots; chipping, pitching and putting.   

[Bill Brightly]

You mean after Oakmont, right?

[Sean Leary]

Prairie Dunes. Especially the Perry Maxwell holes.

[Jon Heise]

I'll give 3.  Kingsley, Crystal, and Pinehurst No. 2. 

Pinehurst with the relatively average sized greens that shrink to seemingly half size when you dont put the ball in the center.

Crystal with the greens in such natural settings and speed can send a ball 30+ yards away.  I've never been so terrified with an approach shot into a set of greens.  The tentativeness definitely effected my mental game...

Kingsley Club also had some greens in which you must consider what you wanted to play into the green.  Or even if you wanted to aim at the green at all (#16) just to roll it up.  Obviously, who the heck knows what you need to do to keep it on #9.

[wsmorrison]

Pine Valley, especially holes 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,13,15,17 and 18 

[Matt Bosela]

Another vote for Oakmont here. 

[Brad Tufts]

I thought Winged Foot East was extremely challening around the greens...

[Kyle Henderson]

You mean after Oakmont, right?

Not unless Oakmont is REGULARLY played in 40+ mph winds like some of its British cousins.

[George Freeman]

completely forgot oakmont....that one is right up there with the most difficult greens/green sites i've played

[Patrick_Mucci]

Wayno,

# 18 at PV ?

A punchbowl green ?

Explain yourself.

Mt Ridge and Hollywood and Essex County, not to mention NGLA.

[David_Tepper]

Royal Dornoch is certainly the most complete short-game test I have ever seen.

[wsmorrison]

Wayno,

# 18 at PV ?

A punchbowl green ?

Explain yourself.

Mt Ridge and Hollywood and Essex County, not to mention NGLA.

Amazing, Pat.  NGLA is the answer to every question 

As to the 18th green at Pine Valley, I don't consider that a punchbowl green at all.  I was thinking of the surrounds more than the green itself providing difficulty, though the green has a great deal of slope and is difficult to read the breaks, unlike a punchbowl.  However, it is not as severe as the others on the list, so feel free to remove it from my list.

[Thomas MacWood]

Pinehurst

[Tom_Doak]

ON the greens:  Oakmont, Oakland Hills, Crystal Downs, and Augusta National.

AROUND the greens:  Pinehurst No. 2, Ballybunion Old, Royal Dornoch, Prairie Dunes.

To some degree they are interchangeable -- if greens are heavily contoured, there are places around the greens where it's almost impossible to get up and down.

[Sean_A]

Pinehurst for chipping and Oakland Hills for putting.

Ciao

[Patrick_Mucci]

Wayno,

# 18 at PV ?

A punchbowl green ?

Explain yourself.

Mt Ridge and Hollywood and Essex County, not to mention NGLA.

Amazing, Pat.  NGLA is the answer to every question 

Wayno,

I told you NOT to mention NGLA.

As to the 18th green at Pine Valley, I don't consider that a punchbowl green at all. 

I consider it to be a punchbowl green, an expansive replica of # 16 at NGLA.

I greatly prefered the old/original green with the mound near the middle.
I think that feature resulted in a far more demanding approach, recovery and putting.  I'd like to see it restored as the current 18th is rather bland.
Certainly, it's not a demanding green considering that it's a finishing hole.

I was thinking of the surrounds more than the green itself providing difficulty, though the green has a great deal of slope and is difficult to read the breaks, unlike a punchbowl.  However, it is not as severe as the others on the list, so feel free to remove it from my list.

Duely noted, I've removed it, at least until the mound or a spine is reinstalled.

[Ed Oden]

The rap on Grandfather is that it is brutal tee to green.  I haven't found that to be the case if one avoids the driver on the right holes and can swing it out there.  The greens though deserve a lot of praise on how they resist low scores.

John, I love the greens at Grandfather.  They are some of the best surfaces I have played and are definitely deserving of high praise.  But I do not find them particularly difficult to read and, for the most part (i.e., excluding #3), have putted well there.  In my experience, you can make putts BECAUSE the greens are so pure.  So at least for me, the greater difficulty is in the tee to green play. 

As for other nominations, when it is at its firmest and fastest, I find Yeamans to be incredibly difficult on and around the greens.  They have a deadly combination of the fastest bermuda greens I have played, severe internal contours, grain (often switching direction 3 or 4 times on the same putt), deep greenside bunkers and pushup green sites with tightly mowed surrounds.  Nothing less than a great day with the putter will work at Yeamans. 

Ed

[Adam Clayman]

How different would all these responses be if the question was "Most interesting" instead of Hardest?

[Bill_McBride]

Of the courses I've played, Crystal Downs and the Kingsley Club both had very challenging and unique greens and green surrounds which created a plethora of different shots; chipping, pitching and putting.   

Fully agree, particularly Crystal front nine plus #11 and Kingsley #9.

[archie_struthers]

 


Pinehurst #2  at warp speed is pretty crazy ....don't think Mr. Ross ever envisioned  some of the results that occur with just a slighly imperfect shot

Hard to include bad weather ( wind ) as an architectural challenge relative to this question

[Paul Jones]

I played Cherokee Hills Golf Club in Tulsa, OK.  It is a Perry Maxwell design and only 6600 yards from the back tees.  I thought the course was going to be an easy course because of the length - boy was I wrong.  The greens were awesome and difficult.  I was surprised for a public/casino course.

Oakmont is still the hardest greens I have played.

Paul

[David Neveux]

I would second Crystal Downs, Kingsley, and Oakmont.  I will add a threesome from Michigan courtesy of Mr. Doak;  High Pointe, Black Forest, and Lost Dunes.  Also, I will nominate Greywalls. 

[Dean Stokes]

Seminole.

[Mark Chaplin]

#17 at PV - especially as my 45 foot hit the hole doing about 15mph and dropped!