[Warwick Loton]

The first thread about your tour was fascinating to start with, but seems to have become bogged down at NSW & RS.

Tell us more about your impressions of the other courses you played.

[Ian Andrew]

The other courses on the "official tour" were Metropolitan, Royal Melbourne West and Kingston Heath (to watch the Masters).

There were a few people who went on to see others.

Robin and Brian saw St. Andrew's Beach
Till Liddy saw at least Victoria and probably more.

[Duncan Betts]

Did anyone venture to Woodlands, Huntingdale or Peninsula?

Woodlands is a fine golf course, with some wonderful short Par 4's woth studying alone.

Huntingdale is a fine example to architects about what not to do, and a fine example for committees not to employ multiple architects to make multiple changes.  My father says it was a wonderful course in the 80's and I find it quite difficult to believe such a statement.

Peninsula is a must visit these days, I'm not 100% sure who did the work, but it is now an outstanding course and unless the work on RME is rectified, could arguably be the best 36 hole complex in the country.  You simply should not visit Australia without playing Peninsula.

Having said that, I would have thought that you wouldn't visit Australia without playing Barnbougle, and not visit Sydney without playing Newcastle - certainly before considering a game at Royal Sydney (although the accommodation is first class).  Who gave the advice on itinerary?

[Mike_Clayton]

Duncan,

Woodlands is fantastic - the 3rd and 4th holes are brilliant short fours and 15 is one of the best flat par fives in golf.

You can read about Huntingdale of the 80s in The Confidential Guide.  It was good - but not as sophisticated as the best of the sandbelt courses owing to it not having the Morcom/Russell/MacKenzie touch.
We did the new work at Peninsula - and I think it is a really fun place to play. It is the best property outside of RM on the sandbelt.

[Duncan Betts]

Thanks Mike,

Woodlands has long been a favourite of mine, its a regular game when I head south.  Huntingdale I'm sure I'll have to read about at some stage, as I don't think much of it now.

Well done on your work at Peninsula, I found it extremely enjoyable to play, I had only been there once previously and wasn't aware it had been renovated.  I visited just a few weeks ago and was suitably impressed.  Unfortunately it's just that little bit too far for me to play regularly when I visit.

The itinerary of the visit intrigues me as to some fo the courses missed, and the ones played.

[Neil_Crafter]

Duncan
The week was titled "In Search of Mackenzie",and it was decided to have two days in Sydney (hence NSW and RS as two courses that Mac designed and redesigned), a travel day Wed and then two days in Melb playing Metro and RMW. We had originally booked to play at KH on Thursday but they had to cancel as they had this American guy who wanted to play - and 20,000 to watch him. So we went to Metro instead. Then on the Sat we had tickets to go to the Masters and see KH. So I think it was a pretty good itinerary seeing the time constraints and the theme of courses associated with Mac. What would you have suggested instead??? There were only going to be 4 rounds played and 2 each in Syd and Melb. I'm interested to hear what we missed but should have played instead. Phil Ryan did the organising by the way.

[Brian Phillips]

Duncan,

As Neil points out it was a superb itinerary organised by Phil.  We never kicked the arse out of the golf which made for some great discussions around dinners at night rather than falling asleep early.  It also gave room for a couple of seminars before and after golf.  In the end we only had one morning of free time on the Wednesday before traveling down to Melbourne.

Here is a short summary:

Sydney
Sunday        Arrival and drinks in the bar
Monday       Bus to NSW, seminar by Crafty Crafter on the mystery tour of MacKenzie who designed everything in Australia (even when he didn't)
                  Play NSW then dinner in town
Tuesday      Bus to RS
                  Short seminar before teeing off after lunch
                  Dinner at the club
Wednesday  Freetime before flying down to Melbourne in the afternoon (Robin Hiseman joked - "I wonder how many in the industry would
                  not be too unhappy if this plane went down"
                  Free dinner for GCA members paid for by Brian Walshe
Thursday     Metro and then seminars in the afternoon. Sponsors dinner
Friday         Royal Melbourne, seminars in the morning (Aussies had their AGM before us) and shotgun start golf on the West course.
                 Dinner at RM (Main Sponsors TORO dinner)
Saturday     Watch the Masters at Kingston Heath
                  Sponsors dinner
Sunday        Most traveled home some carried onto NZ and others had a few courses to play.
                 

[Robin_Hiseman]

Duncan

I made it to Huntingdale on my final morning, playing with a couple of members. 

It's a solid, good quality members course, but I was surprised that it hosted the Masters for 25 years running.  I can remember a good par 3 at the 4th, but much of the rest of the course passed me by, before picking up with a decent trio of holes to finish. 

One of the guys I played with hated the work they had done on the back nine in recent years, especially the 'rumpling' of the 14th hole, which he explained was to shift surface water off the fairway.  Ironic that it has barely rained in the 10 years since!  The 14th green is about to be dug up and redone again.

I'd rip out the par 3 15th in a heartbeat.  It looks like an offcast from a sub standard Florida public track.  Not what you would expect from one of the Sandbelt's premier courses.

It suffered in comparison with the other courses on our rota, but it is a solid, hard working track.  More David Batty than David Beckham.  (Only a few people will get that reference, but I haven't a clue about any of the various NFL, NBA, baseball jargon that goes on here!)

[C. Sturges]

I am playing these courses and the sandbelt is great! Much better than NSW's.  Have really liked Victoria, but the green complexes at Metropolitan are the best!  I have dreamed of greens that are putting surface into bunkers for ever and have now seen then.  The layout at commonwealth is great, but do not understand what they are doing with the grasses.  Had the same thought at the national moonah course.  Was food to see st. Andrews beach open and have plenty of play.  Off to Tasmania and Adelaide, then back to the sandbelt, it has been great.

[Ian Andrew]

I played Woodlands by skipping out from the tour on the Thursday afternoon.

The golf course has many really great holes and I really think it's a must play.
The stretch of 3 through 5 is awesome.

I really liked the tough 10th and short 11th.
The 7th, 13th and 15th green sites are remarkable.

The only thing that left me flat was all the low level vegitation just off the fairways.

I would recommend the course to anyone.

[Neil_Crafter]

I played Woodlands by skipping out from the tour on the Thursday afternoon.

The only thing that left me flat was all the low level vegitation just off the fairways.

Can you elaborate for us please Ian, perhaps with an illustration from your pics?
Neil

[Jason Topp]

I played Woodlands by skipping out from the tour on the Thursday afternoon.

The only thing that left me flat was all the low level vegitation just off the fairways.

Can you elaborate for us please Ian, perhaps with an illustration from your pics?
Neil

This is a par three (16?) but it shows the vegitation I suspect Ian is describing.  I only took 3 pictures of the course.  I did not notice the vegitation but it was my 2nd 18 of the day and I might have been hitting it straight

[Duncan Betts]

Neil,

Fair enough, I wasn't aware there was a 'theme'.

If I had visiting friends, the courses I would say they absolutely must play are as follows.

VIC:  RM (both), KH, Woodlands, Victoria, Peninsula, National Old (there are many more, but these I think are 'must plays')
NSW: NSW, Newcastle, Ellerston (if they can get on!)

Then of course Barnbougle, but one can assume they are coming back when the second course is open.  I also reccomend Royal Adelaide and Royal Queensland, but understand the difficulties of air travel to see just the one course.

[Neil_Crafter]

Duncan
In Sydney it was never a question of being able to go outside the city to play Newcastle, which of course would have been nice to do. And it had no connection with Mac, so didn't get considered because of the theming. Yet to see Ellerston myself and may go the rest of my life without ever seeing it. Looks like our next SAGCA meeting in Nov 2010 will be in Tassie at Barnbougle and we will play the two courses.
There are actually some other quite decent courses in SA apart from Royal Adelaide - there is Kooyonga and Clayts has recently redone Grange West while I have redone Glenelg. Any of these are well worth a look once you've got yourself to Adelaide. I'm sure Clayts would agree.

[Tom_Doak]

Neil:

Please keep me posted on the dates your group is going to Barnbougle ... I'd love to be there at the same time.  But, I will probably get there beforehand, just to make sure I am in country while St. Andrews Beach is playable.

[Neil_Crafter]

Tom
We would love to have you there too, would be great! Love to have you participate in our activities but the price might be that you give us a short talk on your experiences in designing and building the course! Would be wonderful if we could get Bill down there at the same time to talk about LF as well. Something to work on. Will certainly keep you posted, but it almost certainly will be November next year.
Neil

[Matt Day]

would the 15th at Huntingdale be one of the worst golf holes in Australia...for me in a week that I played Huntingdale,Woodlands and Kingston Heath that hole sticks in my mind as a shocker

[Brian Walshe]

Matt,

I have a theorey on 15 at Huntingdale.  I think if they moved the tee 30m right and put it on the roof of about the 2nd house along it would work much better.   

[Matt Day]

Matt,

I have a theorey on 15 at Huntingdale.  I think if they moved the tee 30m right and put it on the roof of about the 2nd house along it would work much better.   

[Duncan Betts]

Neil,

Again, I understand the limitations of the tour, and of course the 'theme' I wasn't aware of this when I first observed the itinerary.

As for Kooyonga, Grange et al - all worthwile of visiting.  As are others I didn't mention such at Metro, Royal Sydney, LK, St Andrew's Beach.  I was simply listing my own personal view on what would be my own list of 'must plays'.  Ellerston is a must, and I understand it is even more difficult to get on now than it was before.  However, when Kerry was alive, if you were in the cricketing fraternity it was quite easy to get a game 

I actually didn't list Metro as I don't believe it has that same 'unique sandbelt feel' that the others do.  However, I do love the course.

[Ian Andrew]

Neil,

Here is the 17th at Woodlands.





The tree line is like that on a number of holes on the back nine including the 12th, 14th and 15th.

Unfortunately, I concentrated on what I liked, not what I didn't like.

[Neil_Crafter]

Ian
It is a pretty little hole for sure. The bushy treeline needs a bit of horizontal pruning to my eye! The course would look more grand and expansive with some of that sort of enhancement.

[Kenny Baer]

What did u guys think of Saint Andrews Beach?  I have heard amazing things and have been going through some past threads but can't find anything since 2007. If I remember correctly Brian Phillips had it #1 in Aus, which goes w/o saying is very high praise indeed, especially coming from someone with Brian's expertise.

What is the future of the course?
How does it play?
What is it's current state?
Is it similar to anything in the states?
What is it most similar to in Austrailia?
Why has it struggled so financially?
What if anything could be done to improve the course (financially and architectually)?

[Brian Phillips]

Kenny,

It was Robin Hiseman that put it #1 on the list of courses he had played.  I put it at #3 behind Kingston Heath and Royal Melbourne.

The future of the course is unknown at the moment.  Apparently the people in charge of the receivership are trying to sell but from what I was told the price is ridiculous considering not much else can be gotten out of the are due to planning restrictions for housing etc.

It plays very wide and you can really enjoy your driver there.  The greens are a lot of fun with a hell of a lot of internal strategy.  I only disliked one shot on the whole course and that was the drive on hole 13 if I remember correctly.  A totally blind hole to a humpback fairway falling off to both sides of the rough.  A quite ridiculous shot to be asked of anyone.

According to Robin it reminded him of Pacific Dunes.

I cannot help you with comparisons to anything in Aussie as we did not play that many courses.

I think it struggles financially because it offers nothing else but golf.  The clubhouse is a tent, the carpark is a fair old walk from the first tee, there is no asphalt on the carpark.  It just does not ooze professionalism when you arrive there apart from the design.  Even the logo is crap.

Architecturally the only holes that could be improved are hole 13 (a D10 for a week would create some fair landing area) and maybe some more tees for hole 4 which is awfully long.  They could cut the rough down on the both sides of the green on that hole to help players not lose their balls.

Marketing and financially, change the logo.  Get a buyer in who is willing to put up a nice clubhouse and try to lobby the local government to be allowed to put up holiday cabins to try to finance the project?

Superb course but Robin and I are both worried that it will be gone very soon. 

[Mark_F]

What did u guys think of Saint Andrews Beach?  I have heard amazing things and have been going through some past threads but can't find anything since 2007. If I remember correctly Brian Phillips had it #1 in Aus, which goes w/o saying is very high praise indeed, especially coming from someone with Brian's expertise.

What is the future of the course?
How does it play?
What is it's current state?
Is it similar to anything in the states?
What is it most similar to in Austrailia?
Why has it struggled so financially?
What if anything could be done to improve the course (financially and architectually)?

I feel another 100 page thread coming on...

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