Metal Spikes - It's time for the PGA Tour to ban them!

[Jerry Kluger]

I understand that there are still quite a few touring pros who use metal spikes and I think it is time that the PGA Tour banned them.  Today's replacement spikes are fine and it just is not fair to players behind you.   

[Jon Wiggett]

WHY???

[Phil McDade]

Spike marks?

[Jerry Kluger]

I think we are spoiled playing at courses which do not allow metal spikes.  I can remember what it was like with metal spikes and I have to imagine that it is even worse on really fast greens.

[Joe Bausch]

Curiously, I cannot remember a single LPGA player at the McDonald's Championship the last few years that wears metal spikes.

[wsmorrison]

What happens when the tour pros show up with metal spikes at clubs that ban them?  Do they temporarily suspend the ban?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

What happens when the tour pros show up with metal spikes at clubs that ban them?  Do they temporarily suspend the ban?

Wayne,

Here is one example of what happened here in Houston...

COPYRIGHT 2006 Houston Chronicle

Byline: Steve Campbell

Jun. 6--Steve Elkington's hopes of qualifying for the U.S. Open ended when he set foot on Lakeside Country Club. The crunching sound of metal spikes on pavement Monday morning began a confrontation that ended with Elkington withdrawing from the sectional qualifier. Rebuffed in his attempt to play in metal spikes, Elkington angrily left the grounds rather than comply with the Lakeside course rule mandating soft-spiked shoes. Elkington, a Houston resident and former PGA champion, chastised the United States Golf Association for having different rules in place at different sites.

[Bill Brightly]

Yes Wayne, I believe they suspend the rules for the pros.

I happened to have this conversation with Curtis Strange years ago (playing with him in a Pro Am ) and he was adament that pros should be allowed to use metal spikes. He said that especially on their driver where they really torque, they feel that they can slip without metal spikes. (I say this is all the more reason to ban them...)

He went on to say "plastic is fine for you amateurs..but we do this for a living man..."

[John Moore II]

I say bring back spikes for all. I had one old school pro tell me that he thought the real reason for banning steel spikes was the replacement cost of carpet and other clubhouse items. Interesting thought. I keep a set of real steel in the car at all times, whenever I come to a course that allows steel (very rare, mind you) I change my spikes in the parking lot.

[Chuck Brown]

I tried to settle a long-running internet debate a couple of years ago by counting all the metal vs. softspikes at a tour event (Buick Open @ Warwick Hills).

I have forgotten my totals now, but my presumptions were all stomped on, like Phil Mickelson surveying a putt at ANGC.  
I had predicted that fully 40% of the field wore metal spikes.  I was wrong.  Of the entire (post-cut) weekend field, there were only about ten metal-spike wearers.  Elkington, and Tiger, were both in the field, and both wore metal.

My theory on why the tour players have transitioned over was always that so many of them have shoe contracts with modern-style shoemakers, and they are directed to wear the newest retail styles, and that in anything other than heavy, leather-soled FJ Classic Premieres, metal spikes were just not comfortable.  I am not at all sure that theory, which sounds good, is even true.  A lot of players have Titleist ball/glove/shoe deals, and only a few of them wear metal.  And I wonder how many Nike shoe wearers have metal, like Tiger.  Not many.  So that theory is unproven at best.

I don't understand it myself.  If I were allowed to wear metal, I would.  In a New York freakin' minute.

On a lighter note, recall Lee Trevino's idea; allow players who wear softspikes to tamp down spike marks.  Metal-cleat wearers may not.

[JESII]

JKM,

two questions:

1) Do you actually go into the shop, ask, and then change spikes if permited?

2) Did that "old school pro" ever actually ask the superintendent about the impact on maintenance?

The one super I now pretty well said it was like night and day when his course went spikeless...cost and overall quality of the greens on a daily basis, not just at the end of the day.

[Bill Brightly]

I can still remember the immediate improvement in our greens once we banned metal spikes. It always surpises me that the pros would put up with spike marks on the green, especially the BIG names playing at the end of the day as leaders.

[John Moore II]

JKM,

two questions:

1) Do you actually go into the shop, ask, and then change spikes if permited?

It usually says on the scorecard if they are allowed. BTW, its been about 4 years since I went to a club that allowed 'Nails'

2) Did that "old school pro" ever actually ask the superintendent about the impact on maintenance?

Likely not. I have heard the stuff about soil compaction being worse with steel spikes, all the little lumps of stuff hanging around after someone walks, etc. But, and I think this is the key, I feel that very few people really listen to what Super's say about the course. They just want it green and pretty. But, you let some big guys at the PGA meeting and the Golf Course Owners meeting, and Club Managers meeting start bitching about how much they are having to spend on new carpet and new stair treads and new tile in the locker rooms and a new back deck because its about to fall down from 25 years of spikes being dug into it, stuff will change. I don't think that MOST people at FootJoy, Champ Spikes, Softspikes, or most other companies in the business give half a crap about what most Superintendents say, but you let the pros start raising a stink, they will change. I think that is what it came down to.

The one super I now pretty well said it was like night and day when his course went spikeless...cost and overall quality of the greens on a daily basis, not just at the end of the day.

[JESII]

"You just keep thinking Butch, that's what you're good at..."

[Jon Wiggett]

I can still remember the immediate improvement in our greens once we banned metal spikes. It always surpises me that the pros would put up with spike marks on the green, especially the BIG names playing at the end of the day as leaders.

Bill,

it depends on the type of grass your using although it is usually poor putters that complain about spike marks. Also looking at the damage caused by the modern profiles you get on a lot of golf shoes because people don't lift their feet leaves one longing for the old days.

[Bob_Huntley]

If you need metal spikes to swing a golf club, you are playing the wrong game. Sam Snead played as well in his bare foot as he did with shoes.

Greens subjected to spikes are infinitely poorer than when soft spikes are used,.

Bob

[Jon Wiggett]

If you need metal spikes to swing a golf club, you are playing the wrong game. Sam Snead played as well in his bare foot as he did with shoes.

Greens subjected to spikes are infinitely poorer than when soft spikes are used,.

Bob

So Bob, you play in your bare feet do you? or are you playing the wrong game

[Adrian_Stiff]

Banning metal spikes is the single biggest overnight improvement you can do to an established putting green IMO. The surfaces are miles better and you can double the the time on changing cups if you want. We allow no one to play in metal spikes, but occasionally one gets through and then its very noticeable....when you see the damage you think why do some clubs allow them... when you watch the pga tour late on a sunday, can you not see the scags n tuffs? btw Phil Mickleson is the worst for causing damage.

[Pat Burke]

I my opinion (now THAT'S valuable), the problem was the technology that allowed manufacturers to design metal spikes that NEVER wore down.  When I grew up, whenever you saw spike marks, it seemed to be one of 2 things. 1) someone was ancient and couldn't pick up their feet, or 2) someone had NEW shoes/spikes.
I personally have problems in soft spikes, mostly when the ground is firm, but there is a little moisture (early am).  At FT Ord a few years ago, with the moisture in the air, and some pretty firm fairways (which didn't happen often there) I had nighmares keeping good footing.  I played, and would still like to play in, spikes which Nike provided for a lot of us that were 1/2 length of normal.  Absolutley cured any slipping, and you couldn't leave spike marks or "tracks" unless you were trying to.  Before any ban in professional golf was tried, I would love to see an attempt to ban full length spikes, I really believe it would work.
Of course, the carpets, paths, and wood areas would still be screwed

[Steve Kline]

I would never go back to spikes. I always prefer to walk and walking in soft spikes is SOOOO much more comfortable. I have not slipped in a pair of soft spikes since the first year or two they came out - which was like 10 or more years ago wasn't it. The next best thing about the new shoes is the thinner soles. I love the new adidas shows. It feels like my feet are directly on the ground.

[John Moore II]

http://www.champspikes.com/images/golf/enlarged_prostinger.jpg

Check out those. I want to be able to use those. They look really good.


Steve Kline--I found it very easy to walk courses where the cart paths did not consistently cross the walking areas. Spikes only hurt me when I have to walk across paved paths.

Pat Burke--Funny thing is, those ancient people who scuffed up the green with steel spikes still terribly screw up the green with soft spikes, especially those new model Pulsar's. I actually had a member come up to me and ask me to take the cleats out the shoes because she said the cleats scuffed up the green too bad. I wanted to just tell her to pick up her feet and she'd be fine and never scuff anything.

[TX Golf]

Are we allowed to use those??? They aren't metal spikes. Any idea where you can purchase those??

[John Moore II]

Are we allowed to use those??? They aren't metal spikes. Any idea where you can purchase those??

I'm not sure if you can use them or not really. Here is a link where you can buy them online:
 http://www.golfspikes.com/prostingercleats.html
BTW, the center is metal.

[Bruce Leland]

Many of you will remember the metal spikes with tungsten inserts.  Those things were the worst offenders on putting surfaces.  They were especially bad once the "softer" steel portion of the spike wore down to the point that the tungsten insert stuck out about 1/8 of an inch.  Those things would really rip up carpet, bridge decks and putting surfaces.

[Jon Wiggett]

Many of you will remember the metal spikes with tungsten inserts.  Those things were the worst offenders on putting surfaces.  They were especially bad once the "softer" steel portion of the spike wore down to the point that the tungsten insert stuck out about 1/8 of an inch.  Those things would really rip up carpet, bridge decks and putting surfaces.

Well done Bruce Someone finally hit on the first of 2 reasons why soft spike have become so demanded. The second reason being you have to replace them more often thus driving up sales. Whilst they maybe a little more comfortable in hard, dry conditions it was the clubs wishing to protect bridges and carpets rather than the golfer that brought this change. Whilst there are many clubs whose greens are better for it there are many that are worse off. The new full profile soles are a desaster when players forget to lift their feet and in winter or wet conditions the hold is not the same.