[Paul_Turner]

A friend and I were discussing this construction photo of the great 12th at Addington. 

He noticed what looks to be a green to the left of the 12th green.

If this is a green (I think it almost certainly is), on the current course there is no green (other than the 12th) within 200 yards of it and that area is now completely covered with trees.



I find if difficult to believe that the current 9th was 200 yards longer, so my theory is:

There was another par 3, played as the 10th to that mystery green.  It would have been a spectular hole playing over the same ravine that is crossed on the current 12th.




If this is correct.  I think either the 1st or 11th were added as a replacement par 3, after this hole was abandoned. 

So thinking about a possible "original" routing:

If the 1st or 11th are removed, the routing is only minimally impacted:

If the 1st is gone, the second tee is still a convenient starting point. (Plus the first is definitely the weakest hole on the course and does have a "tacked on" feel to it).

Alternatively, if the 11th is removed, the 12th is probably a bit longer.

What you think?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Paul, Fascinating! From what spot was that photo taken? It looks to be flat, prepared ground, as it might be a tee, but it's certainly not angled towards the mystery green.

[Jon Wiggett]

I do not know the course but looking at the photo an the overhead it looks as though the green might be slightly north of where the last house on Bishops Walk is. Are the houses pre or post the course? Maybe the club had to alter the course if the houses where built at a later date.

[Tom_Doak]

Paul:

I just played out there the other day.  Wish I had seen this photo beforehand.

I don't understand your take, though.  I could see how the 1st hole might have been added to the routing, but it doesn't seem possible that there was a par-3 to this green after #9, because #10 would have been impossible if the tee were back there.  And I can't imagine there was such a long green-to-tee walk considering how short the rest of them are ... I don't think I have ever played a course where the greens and tees are so close together.  (It doesn't work so well for the daily-fee operation they're running now.)

[Paul_Turner]

An old aerial would be the only answer to this puzzle. Or a stomp through the woods.

Would the 10th be totally impossible?  500-520 yards uphill?  The valley does look to be getting shallower on the left, so would the tee shot carry be all that formidable to an spot in front of the second valley (currently carried with 10th tee shot)?

If anyone else has a routing suggestion...the old pics have the 7th, 8th 12th and 13th greens in the current positions.

Mark

There is a leveled off plateau in the 12th fairway.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Paul

Well done. I recall speaking once to Bob Hill, who ran the place for Mrs. Fabes. He said the clubhouse originally was planned for the opposite side of the course, over somewhere around the 9th or 10th holes. But I never was sure.

No matter; Bob said they abandoned the idea when it became apparent they'd have to spend too much hauling materials over there, or something to do with economics.

Sadly, I never did find out the timing of the decision to abandon this location; I don't know if the decision came after construction had begun on the course - although that was my impression.

Also, there originally were two courses, Old and New, right?

Can either of these scenarios explain your possible find?

Mark

[Tony_Muldoon]

Mark in the Centurians of Golf the author has it that the original clubhouse was to be converted railway carriages but they couldn't get them up the hill.  I think that explains the current first.

If you look at Google earth you can see the remnants of a few holes on the other side of the road from the clubhouse, so I think it's unlikely to be the new.




Heres the right hand side of the above picture today



To confuse things further don't forget there is an alternative 18th, which no one seems to know if it was ever in play.


Fascinating.

[Paul_Turner]

Mark

Yes, as Tony points out The New was across the road.  To me, it's the great enigma of London golf as there's virtually no uncovered info on the course other than the drawing in Simpson's book and a single photo in the clubhouse.  It was sacrificed because of a housing shortage after the bombing in WW2.

Not sure what to make of the original clubhouse site?  There isn't much spare space other than where that mysery green is. 

Tony

That alternative 18th or practice hole was added post WW2. 

[Jon Earl]

It may sound silly but could it not just be an alternative routing of 12 with it playing as a genuine par 5 as opposed to a bogey 5? Did the old guys go for this sort of 'on-the-ground' experimentation?

Its also interesting to note the amount of tree clearance that took place down the right hand side between the time that Paul's photo was taken and the image shown in the 'Courses By Country' section.








I am playing there is a few weeks. I will try to have a look in the woods if circumstances permit.

[Paul_Turner]

My friend had a stomp through woods and that mystery green is still discernable, apparently it is rather large.

Another theory has been suggested that this green is just an alternate for the 12th.  But then I don't see how the 13th fits without an awkward walk.

[Tony_Muldoon]

If Ran’s image is the earlier then it’s interesting how the fairway to the left seems to have been added later but heads off from the same spot, in another direction.
Is the golfer on the right hand side hitting off a tee?




Also look again at the trees in the centre of Paul’s image. There appears to be light and space behind them.

Finally that ledge where I assume the second photo was taken from is weird, quirky but weird.  There’s nothing else like it on any other I’ve played.


I’m in south London tomorrow and if things go well I had half a mind to visit Shirley Park GC, Simson/Fowler  (http://www.shirleyparkgolfclub.co.uk/course.php)  but....


(anything else I should consider in South London?)

[Mark Bourgeois]

Paul

Upon reflection, there really are many possibilities.  In addition to what's been posited:
1. Staging area for construction.  What do you make of the left-site's "shading" being darker than the right(=12 green)?
2. Turf nursery
3. Burial ground of Piltdown Man
4. Mistake
5. Practice green Maybe clubhouse was planned such that 10 today originally was 1 and 9 originally was 18

The loss of club records in the clubhouse fire must be reckoned a significant loss.

Mark

[Paul_Turner]

Tony

That area is beyond is now Addington Palace GC which was built in about 1930 by F Hawtree.  It may be worth playing, doesn't look bad on their website.

But I can't see that the original Addington went beyond these two greens...it's past the point of no return! (We know that 2,4,7,8,12,13,16,and 17 greens are in the right place from this old photo set.)

The smaller black and white photo (from Hunter's book) has to be a later because more trees have been felled next to the 13th tee.

[Sean_A]

It looks to me like its a possibility that the green below (the left one in the photo showing two greens) may have been built before the right hand (current green) green was. 


The stand of trees separating the two greens has been felled and it looks as though something is being built on the right - the current 12th? 

Also, in the above photo, there looks to be a house tucked back left in the trees.  It doesn't look to be in the photo of showing both greens.  What can this tell us?

What are the dates of the articles?

Ciao

[Paul_Turner]

Sean

That's the 13th tee (where the trees have been felled) on the right of the smaller pic.  The mystery green isn't visible in the small pic.

I agree about the possible house.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Paul

Dumb question, probably, but how do you know that clearing to the left is a green?

Also, that golfer bottom right in the second picture: was 12 tee originally down in the valley?

Mark

[Paul_Turner]

Mark

I can't be 100% but it sure looks like green shaping to me,  particularly how it has been raised up on the right hand side closest to the trees.  The mound at the back is a common trait too and similar to the 12th.

Plus my friend just had a walk over it and thinks its a green.

The chap in the valley is surely not playing from a tee?!

[Paul_Turner]

Here's the green at full resolution (squint):

[Mark Bourgeois]

Certainly does look like a fill job.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Can anyone work out an 18-hole routing with this hole included?  I can't, but if it were incorporated in an 18-hole routing somehow, then could the hole have played as a par 4 or 5 hole, a fairway crossing the 12th and going from left-to-right in the photos, had a tee located near the 4th and 16th tees, and been followed by the 10th hole (not the 13th)?

Mark

[Paul_Turner]

Mark

My solution is above much less complicated!

Would you agree that the current 1st looks like an after thought?  It goes nowhere and then you walk back down about half of it to tee off on the 2nd.

But it all depends if there was enough room to have a tee for the lengthened 10th and whether that hole would just be too severe as T Doak points out.  Or was there just a long walk from this green to the current 10th tee.

The mystery green does kind of point towards the 12th fairway so perhaps it was just an alternate green.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Maybe.  But clearly Aber -- still looking for more proof on Colt! -- wasn't afraid of a crossing hole.  16 green is a shooting gallery of dying quails, fer chrissakes!

I agree the 1st feels out of place, but for solving that problem this "lost hole" seems to raise a fair share of others.

Even allowing that the original choice for the clubhouse was not possible, and therefore this "hole" did not somehow fit into that scheme, my understanding is the clubhouse was built to the left of the 18th green, not where the present clubhouse is.  (When the current owners excavated the area to the left of the 18th hole for purposes of building an overflow car park, they discovered the footings.)

Erasing the current 1st hole leaves a pretty healthy walk from that original clubhouse to the current 2nd tee, doesn't it?  That would make for two awkward walks in the round.  Would Aber have sacrificed a great hole in favor of a "less flawed" routing? Presumably the merits of the lost hole were not sufficient to justify the routing, otherwise, we would be playing that hole today.

If anything, this (possible) lost hole does illustrate the compromises involved in routing this course.  To paraphrase Churchill's comment on democracy, the current 1st hole perhaps represents the worst-possible routing, excepting all the other routings attempted.

Sic gloria transit mundi,
Mark

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean

That's the 13th tee (where the trees have been felled) on the right of the smaller pic.  The mystery green isn't visible in the small pic.

I agree about the possible house.

Paul,

funny but the same thought as Sean had occured to me. It really does look like the left green if you look at the trees.

[Sean_A]

Paul

Looking at the pic closely with glasses I can now see how the the single photo is the right (current 12th).  There are a few things which point toward the idea of the left green being opened first. 

1. The house in the double pic is still missing. 

2. The shaping of the right green has been altered between pix.  That large rear mound has been softened. 

3. There is clearly a fairway cutting through the bottom of the single photo.  It looks like the play to the left green in the double pic was a dogleg right, up the hill.  The players in the photo are playing to that left green, not the current 12th. 

4. It looks like logs and debris are still laying about on the right and short of the green in the single photo.

5. From memory, the 12th is a straight hole.  Wouldn't the ground be prepared for a golf hole on the right of the double green pic?  It just looks like an untouched meadow.   

My best guess is that the left green was open first and abandoned for whatever reason to play to the right green.  The double green photo appears to be giving the viewer a perspective (from not far off the drop-off in the current hole - perhaps slightly left of it) of what the new 12th will look like playing to the right green, only it the fairway area before the ledge and the tee haven't been completed. 

The entire area has changed significantly in the past 75 years.  Does Addington still own that land left of the 12th?  Also, what are the dates of the articles from which the photos were nicked?   

Ciao

[Paul_Turner]

Mark

Perhaps these Darwin quotes, that Tom Macwood found, will help convince you.  Along with the ads and the Alison article, that's a fair amount of evidence:

From Country Life (5/19/1914): "The golfers of London have been hearing
> rumors for some time past of the new course that Mr. Abercromby, with
> Mr. Colt as consultant has been making at Addington."  "One of the
> first questions asked a bout a new course today relates to the
> mountains made by a too ruthless architect upon the putting greens. In
> this respect Mr. Abercromby and Mr. colt have, I think, set about their
> work in a spirit of discreet kindness, which they will have no cause to
> regret."
>
> The Times (5/9/1914): "Worplesdon, Coombe Hill, Swinley Forest, and St.
> Georges Hill - I have seen them all as primeval woodlands and then in
> the twinkling of an eye and at the waving of an architect's wand turned
> onto green glades that meander among the surviving trees. The latest of
> these magical enterprises is that at Addington, where Mr. Abercromby
> with Mr. colt as consulting conspirator in chief has done it all once
> again

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