[Dan Herrmann]

Mark - good point...  How does the lack of a formal teeing area fit into Archie's question?

[jeffwarne]

Sebonack's perfect--multiple options all cut to the same height as an extension of fairway-just like mixing and matching or simply teeing up in the fairway on a hole for variety,simplicity or to avoid a forced carry.


My objection is building, (and usually elevating) maintaining 5-8 formalised tees

[Mark_Fine]

Dan,
I played out at The Preserve not long ago in CA and they had tee markers randomly located on the different holes (out in the fairways) for an event.  It made for a fun and different playing experience.  The original Bandon Dunes courses has "hidden" tees scattered all over it that allow the holes to be played different ways.  

Let's be clear, I have issues when there are zillions of formal tees on a golf course.  The stepped tees for example on #3 at Pine Valley are starting to look silly and very contrived.  I think it might be a matter of presentation more so than variety that people have an issue with.  Then again, maybe not.  

[Mark_Fine]

Quotes from Donald Ross:

"The modern golf course should either have tees fifty yards long or three or four tees at every hole." 

"The old courses in England had separate tees at every hole.  The old courses had tees so long and wide that you never knew what kind of shot you were going to have at any given hole." 

[Adrian_Stiff]

They are essential in todays world. If I play a 7200 yard course it is unenjoyable for me but at 6500 I can enjoy it, equally some people wont enjoy a course too short, so you have to cater for everyone in order to be commercial or retain a happy membership.

[JohnV]

No reason people can't mix forward tees with others to create their own course.

Unless they want a handicap.

Not true.  With a little work you can play any combination of tees and still post your score.

Get a copy of the USGA Handicap Manual or look at it online.  Go to the link below and scroll down about 1 page until you come to two tables that let you adjust the course rating and slope for "unrated" tees.

http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/manual/sections/section_05.html#5-2

[archie_struthers]

 


Some good chum out there on this one and got a lot of bites....if we're talking oure architecture ,,,,and not finances ...multiple tees  (5.6 7 ) pretty much suck LOL!

It;s all about score vs par unfortunately and this is why we need to accomodate sooooo many people....who care if you shoot 88 if your buddy shoot 89..  we do sorry to say..thats it's all about the score..unfortunately as an operator if your golf course is too hard many customers aay the place stinks ...what a shame  ...I'm all about having fun...just walk it up to the front tee ...just don't make us put out seven sets for God's sake

the mulltiple tee effect is really ugly...don't care how good the architecture it gets really busy when you get past three....two is even better.....hats off to Cirba , IMHO he really gets it!!!!

At Twisted Dune I wanted the players to just tee it wherever they liked and have at it...it just wasn't something you could seel tot he general punblic ...pity I'm a poor retired looper or we might just have had something really special...if I hit the Mega Millions I just might thorow some more cash at it and try again lLOL

it's not that we don;t understand what the masses want ...it's just so commercialized ...Ronald M  it's just that the architecture suffers. so

Hey Pat Mucci hope you are feeling good ...we'll have to chat about the flat bottom bunkers one day ..it's not quite the same as five tees but I like where you are going  with the quewry..

how about some imput fro our overseas contingent ...are multiple tees an American thing or what ...??

[Tim Bert]

I like multiple sets of tees at my home course for a few reasons - none of which relate to me feeling entitled to shoot a lower score or being fixated on par.

Our courses have 6 sets of tees - certainly excessive.  At the same time, I can get around on three of them for a regular game.  One is about the right distance I like to play, one stretches me a bit but I can still play it, and one allows me to play more wedges and short irons into the greens.  Factor in the fact that we've got 36 holes, and I've got 6 options which really bring in some variety.  The back / back set (farther back than the three sets I can play) is there for tournament golf, and is rarely used.  The front two sets are most frequently used by women or juniors.

Another thing I like about the different sets of tees is when I'm out by myself and not playing for handicap purposes.  I can mix up the holes and play from a lot of different distances and angles.

I know the tee overkill isn't popular here, but I enjoy the options at my home course.  Would I still enjoy the courses if there were fewer options?  Yes, but it doesn't bother me to have a choice.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Archie,

I'm feeling fine and hoping to get down your way in the next few weeks.

What puzzles me about the issue is that the great majority of play at local clubs is at match play, hence total score SHOULDN'T count, but, everyone seems obsessed with their score, irrespective of the outcome of their match.

Why do you think that is ?

Today, I played horrible, but, made a 20 foot birdie putt on the last hole to win our match 1 up.

While I wasn't  happy with my play, my focus was on the match and trying to win it, rather than my medal score.

Don't most golfers know when they're playing well and when they're playing poorly without looking at a score card ?

[henrye]

I think multiple tees work on some courses and are unnecessary at others.  I don't like to generalize, but I will to make a point.  I think it works on a shotmakers course, where hazards are strategically placed or fairways dogleg at 250 yards out.  If bunkers/hazards are more random, multiple tees are less important.  Score relative to par is less important.

[Mark_Fine]

Archie,
Was Donald Ross clueless?  Evidently in your opinion he didn't get it 

Unfortunately, it is partly about score and it's also about pace of play and having fun.  Just think for example if all ski slopes were only double black diamonds or for that matter bunny trails    Golf courses are similar in many ways. 

I am not an advocate of five or six sets of formal tees.  Three or four are sufficient for almost every course I have ever seen.  Most courses in the British Isles have at least three sets of tees if not more.  Again, in my opinion it is presentation of the tees that can be quite important. 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Archie,

One thing (among many) that Fazio does well is hide fw tees from the ones behind it, rather than lining them all up.  It takes more land - in a housing development, you can't squeezed down the tee areas to 100 foot wide, because it takes some lateral movement of the tees, but it takes away the ugly factor of playing over 4/5 tees in front of you.

[Cliff Hamm]

For those against multiple sets of tees I suspect you have some length and are a low handicapper.  I suspect you envision the single tee to be  'perfect' for your game. What if the single men's tee were at 6100 rather than 6600 or so what would you think then?  What will you think when you're 75 and still playing but need a more forward tee?

[George Pazin]

My vote is God awful. Now I'm off to read why I'm wrong...

[Dan Herrmann]

for the godawful folks...

How would you introduce juniors to the game if not for a shorter set of tees?

[archie_struthers]

 

Hey Pat nice to hear from you God Bless!

Mark, when did I ever say that Donald Ross was "clueless"   Of course if I thought it I wouldn't be afraid to say it !   LOL

      Sometimes the Emperor does indeed have no clothes

                                                                       RJS 2008

I just don't like all the clutter of multiple tees  .... and don't think anyone can really hide them well ...  not Fazio...Doak ..Coore... et al... etc  

              particulary if you have to get carts to them


It's all about the menrtality of golf as a business that makes us build the multiples....lets admit it and move on  ...as Cirba so eloquently stated  two is plemty ....they can be big   ...to allow for maintenance and turf quality but  again this is strictly aesthetic for me ..the multiples are ugly!

[George Pazin]

for the godawful folks...

How would you introduce juniors to the game if not for a shorter set of tees?

Par 3 courses, short courses, executive courses, mom and pop 9 holers, shorter older courses...then there's always "hit one off the tee and drop one in the fairway 150 yards out".

[archie_struthers]

 

Right on George....we got to start conserivng energy sooner or later!

[Sean_A]

for the godawful folks...

How would you introduce juniors to the game if not for a shorter set of tees?

Dan

I think you may be misunderstanding me.  I think multiple tees, or more accurately, multiple teeing areas which only address length are Godawful.  

1. They are indicative of a larger problem of length - the vast majority of courses don't need to be anything close to 7000 yards.  

2. The more length used in tees means that more people will do more walking while not playing shots. This can't be good for pace of play or creating a flow for the round.  

3. They are for the most part ugly, but there are some exceptions.  


Its amazing that folks back in the day ever got on with such backward notions!

Ciao  

[Michael]

Please correct me if I'm wrong here..but..

 Not every hole needs to have multiple tee boxes do they?

[Mark_Fine]

Archie,
You said:

Mark, when did I ever say that Donald Ross was "clueless"   Of course if I thought it I wouldn't be afraid to say it !   LOL

I was just refering to the fact that Ross was an advocate of multiple tees.  Maybe both of you are right?

[George Pazin]

For the God send folks:

How do you square away the fact that Corey Pavin and Bubba Watson play the same set of tees?

Incidentally, on a somewhat related note, did anyone catch the Playing Lessons last week with Corey Pavin and actor Thomas Gibson? I dvr'd it, but haven't watched it yet. I did catch the very first minute, where Corey said it was right for Gibson to be playing the back tees, as he had the game. Just wondering if they ever noted each players relative lengths off the tee.

[archie_struthers]

 

Mark....my personal opinion is that economics drives the building of multiple tees for the most part ...not good architecture ....how many times have we heard the hype on five sets of tee boxes in the marketing of courses ....

I don't see golf gaining momentum at all these days ....pity...most of the customers are 50+ and getting older ...so good business is to promote good scoring by shortening the courses , and promoting accuracy ...it's good business when people play well ...

so the question becomes more complex ...if it's good for business is it better architecture...my upbringing...albeit as a worker...screams no
as an operator you need people to play well...and fast if possible...

....
I'm with Cirba on two sets of markers being sufficient ...one forward one middle back perhaps and letting people choose where they want to play from ....kids can tee it up at the beginning of  the fairway or the 150 marker as their abilities allow...

If someone wants to walk to the back of the bus so be it...just put one foot in the rough and fire away  .....perhaps with golf losing steam at a rapid rate some departure from the new and a return to purity might be good for the future of the game

sooner or later everything is retro


ps.  I must confess to owning a Bushnell  LOL

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