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Patrick_Mucci

Determining architectural merit
« on: September 06, 2008, 05:45:34 PM »
Does the wind, especially at one to two club lengths, help define the merits of the architecture and the value of the golf experience in terms of playability ?

Is that external element a force or pressure that quickly establishes or diminishes a golf courses worth ?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2008, 05:52:38 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Determining architectural merit
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2008, 06:16:42 PM »
Define? No. Accentuate? Yes.


"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

TEPaul

Re: Determining architectural merit
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2008, 08:26:24 PM »
Pat:

With that kind of general question don't you think it might be more appropriate to ask about the pros and cons of closed approach architecture compared to open front architecture when there is multi club wind about?

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Determining architectural merit
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2008, 08:55:20 PM »
Pat:

With that kind of general question don't you think it might be more appropriate to ask about the pros and cons of closed approach architecture compared to open front architecture when there is multi club wind about?


TE,

The feature I really like on windy sites is the combination of both concepts.

For example, an angled green where the back left or back right portion requires a carry but the balance of the green doesn't.

I think that's the best of both worlds.

Sean_A

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Re: Determining architectural merit
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2008, 04:11:09 AM »
Its difficult to speak of 1 and 2 club winds because every course I know of can get this sort of wind as a common occurrence.  The pertinent question is how often does the wind get up to 3 and 4 clubs?  I believe there are plenty of courses out there whose architecture does take wind into account and plenty more that should do it better.  So yes, the wind can help define the merits of architecture.  At the very least, wind provides a measure of variety which is impossible to build into a course - the archie's job is to allow for it.  Either way one looks at it, wind (direction and speed) can not only be an important influence in design, but it can be one of the critical elements taken into consideration.

It should also be noted that maintenance practices have a lot to do with accentuating or reducing the effect of wind.  For instance, if greens/fairways are kept soft, there is much less need to create space behind or between bunkers.  And of course, space is the main way to accomodate for wind.

Ciao
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 04:15:42 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Determining architectural merit
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2008, 03:25:49 PM »
Sean Arble,

It's pretty difficult to keep a very windy site soft.

The wind dries everything out pretty quickly.

One of the features I liked about the 11th at  Friar's Head was the functionally diagonal green with the left greenside bunker protecting its flank.

It almost has a redan like quality in terms of angularity and the defensive nature of the bunker.

The wind was quite strong, perhaps 2-3 club lengths.

With the hole cut back left, the golfer could challenge the carry or favor the more benign right side, playing a draw to get back to the hole.

I like having those choices, I think it makes for interesting golf.

It also challenges the imagination, the golfers creativity and his ability to execute his plan of attack, whatever it may be.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Determining architectural merit
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 05:59:10 AM »
Pat

Yes, I agree.  An angled green with a bunker protecting the a rear hole location is good stuff.  It works well if the green either flows toward the back or decidedly doesn't flow toward the back.  There are so many different variations on this theme that are wonderful.  Perhaps that is why CBM transplanted the concept of the Redan!  Here is a version of what you write of with the safe part of the green working away from a back hole location.

Some days the hole can be relatively tamely and other days its a real choice of what to do.


I have seen other cool ways to challenge golfers to use their imagination in the wind.  In the example below, the play is from the left and back of the PoV.  The land flows gracefully through a gate in the hummocks and toward a front hole location.  Most visitors try to flight a high ball that is easily carried on the wind if it isn't struck properly.  Its grand to see the locals try and hit a wee tacking hook around the front line defense.  It takes precision, but there is no do or die element the hole - just find the ball and try the next bit of wizardry.


Yet another example.  Hit out right to this long par 3 which can often require a wood or long iron where there is at least some fairway or go for the flag over rough country?  Again, no bunker to influence the decision of going to the back left, but perhaps the rough is worse than a bunker?


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Determining architectural merit
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 12:10:03 PM »
Sean,

Great photos.

The concept of leaving a portion of the green and fronting area unguarded by architectural features and other portions heavily guarded works even better with windy sites.

It allows the golfer to evaluate the various options along with the golfers ability to execute those options.

As there's more than one way to skin a cat, there's more than one way to get to a hole location.
I think that's part of the inate charm of playing golf.
While introspection is a critical factor in formulating a plan of attack, there may not be a right and a wrong way to attack a hole.  It's so individually oriented.  What works for one may not work for others and what works for one today may not work for that individual tomorrow.

I think that's one of the reasons that I like greens that have steep falloffs.

It's also one of the reasons that I believe windy courses enjoy an advantage over non-windy courses.  They change every day and with that change new tactics must be crafted and executed.

I believe that the wind enhances almost every architectural feature in its application to thwart the golfer's journey from point A to point B.