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Ian_L

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Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« on: August 28, 2008, 01:59:19 AM »
**WARNING** If you are looking for pictures of a beautiful, famous, or “must-play” golf course, this may not be what you want.  This golf course is a municipal course in Oakland, California.  I am posting this because a forum member asked me to last week (and it’s a good exercise for me).  It might be interesting to discuss the addition of bunkers on certain holes, or other possible changes that could improve the strategic aspects of the course. I’d be happy to take any suggestions on the format, commentary, and photography (very basic) in this post as this is my first course review, as well as answer any questions about the course itself.  Also, I’d strongly advise against playing this course in the winter, it doesn’t drain…

Please let me know if you do or don’t enjoy this post.

Course Info:
The course was built in 1923, however I have not found any information on the design of the golf course.  Apparently there was no architect, and I can’t find any history on its development and evolution.
Length: 6004 yards
Par: 72
The course plays longer due to the elevation changes and mostly uphill approaches.
You’ll see the course is extremely hilly (the most elevation changes I’ve seen).  The first 6 holes basically go from one side of a huge valley to the other, making the course very strenuous to walk.  There are only five bunkers on the entire course.  The addition of a few strategic bunkers could add greatly to the thought required to play many of the holes.  For most, the only question off most tees is “can I hit my driver straight enough?”

1st hole: 374 yards, par 4

This hole plays as the #1 handicap hole, likely due to the driving range on the right that eats up the weaker golfer’s slice.  However, there is plenty of room, since a ball hit at the hill on the left will bounce into the fairway.  The drive plays to a plateau, which falls off away from the golfer into a valley about 250 yards from the tee.  The stronger golfer can choose a 130-yard shot from a level lie, or a pitch from well below the hole to the elevated green.  The green is similar to most on the course: round and sloping back-to-front.  The overuse of in-course OB starts behind and right of the first hole.  Why they built those 3-foot OB fences around many of the greens beats me.  At least give the golfer a chance at finding and playing his ball!

A view from the first tee:


A look at the green from the mound on the left side of the fairway.  The OB behind and right of this green is completely unnecessary:



2nd hole: 151 yards, par 3

Not much to say about this hole.  It’s uphill with a relatively flat green, with one of the six bunkers on the course left of the green.  This picture was taken from across the valley on the 9th tee:


3rd hole: 464 yards, par 5

This hole is the first of three par 5’s on the front nine (there are none on the back due to the par 6 18th), and the shortest.  The tee shot is severely downhill between two fairway bunkers.  This seems to be an attempt to defend the short par 5 from longer hitters, but having them directly across from one another seems artificial to me.  The green is tucked behind the trees on the right, so the preferred drive is to the left side.  This green is the first to feature a severe upslope behind the green, which we will see often throughout the rest of the course:


4th hole: 486 yards, par 5

#4 turns back around and pretty much plays #3 backwards.  Most of the landing area is blind (this picture is taken from the forward tees), but the fairway is quite wide.  That’s not a cart path that crosses the fairway, it’s the entrance road.  It crosses holes 2, 3, 4, 5, and 11, making the drive to the clubhouse as exciting as the course itself.


If you don’t go at the green in two, you’ve got a completely blind shot at the green:


The back two-thirds of this green are so severely sloped back-to-front that a putt from the back fringe will not stop for 30 feet (over half the depth of the green).  Even a few uphill puts trickle back a bit after they stop.  Over the green is simply dead, you’ll be lucky to keep the ball on the green.  The severity of a couple of the greens and downslopes around them, while sometimes extreme, do add some interest to almost exclusively bunkerless green complexes.  The slopes aren’t easy to see, so I haven’t provided many close-ups of the greens themselves.  However as I write this I can see that more views of the terrain around the greens would have been helpful.

5th hole: 385 yards, par 4

The 5th plays back to the bottom of the valley.  The landing area is about 120 yards wide..  A play down the right side, however, leaves a tough approach over the next tee box to a green that slopes away from the player.



6th hole: 313 yards, par 4

This hole plays nearly as long as #5, going straight up a gully.  Balls to either side will bounce back to the fairway, but will hold on the slope, creating difficult stances.  The better player, however, may want to use this to his advantage.  The green is elevated but flat, making a longer approach difficult to hold.  A view of the approach:


7th hole: 188 yards, par 3

For a relatively short course, this long, uphill par 3 to a small, blind green is definitely a tough one.  I’ve ever seen this green hit in regulation in about 20 rounds played.  OB long and left makes most golfers lay off to the right and try to get up and down. The blue flag is off to the left in this picture.


The problem is, the green is steeply sloped from back to front.  On this day’s pin location, any chip short of the hole will roll back to 15 feet away.  Anything above the hole is in danger of going down the hill on the next shot.  On my first round of the weekend, I chipped to about eight feet (hole high), and proceeded to putt the ball down the hill on my way to a 3-putt.


8th hole: 492 yards, par 5

A blind tee shot leaves the player looking at an awkward slope, unsure of where to aim.  The best drive is just left of the middle cart path (why on earth do they need three of them?).


 If the drive catches the slope, longer hitters will have a mid to short iron approach for their second shot.  The only danger on this hole is OB left and far right.  A view from the green:


9th hole: 182 yards, par 3

This hole goes from one of the higher points on the course to one of the lowest, all in 182 yards.  From the tee, the player can’t see any of the green, with only a white pole and trees behind to aim at.  Taking a picture of this hole was difficult. 
From the forward tees:


From the back tees:


10th hole: 305 yards, par 4

The back nine begins with a short par 4 that plays up a gully.  The fairway is only about 15 yards wide in the landing area, but is one of the easiest to hit since a drive to either side feeds down to the bottom of the gully. The green is larger than most, but missing long or right leaves a very difficult downhill chip.  However, most strong golfers will find this to be a very easy drive-and-pitch hole.  The approach:


11th hole: 420 yards, par 4

This is the only par 4 on the course that plays over 380 yards, and it’s a pretty big one.  The drive is well elevated, but the approach is straight uphill, more than it appears in this picture.


12th hole: 156 yards, par 3

Pretty straightforward.  The tee shot is a bit awkward due to trees by the tee.  I can’t understand why they have made the forest on the left OB, it’s clearly on the property.  It seems that anywhere a ball may be lost, they decide to settle the matter themselves…


13th hole: 287 yards, par 4

Another short par 4 playing uphill.  The landing area is very wide, and the only challenge is a back-left pin location.  As long as the player is below the hole, it should be an easy par or birdie.


14th hole: 369 yards, par 4

After a blind tee shot, the golfer is left with a very flat view on the approach.  Not much to say about this one:


15th hole: 259 yards, par 4

The shortest par 4 on the course is rather dull.  The only thing to prevent players from going for the green is OB on both sides, which I can’t say add anything to the hole.


16th hole: 306 yards, par 4

In my opinion the most interesting par 4 on the course, this hole was discussed recently in another thread.  You can barely see the flagstick under the tree on the left (past the cart path).  To drive the green, the strong player must challenge the trees on the left side, possibly even bouncing the ball between them.  Anything right of the green will trickle back down the hill, leaving another blind approach.  The shorter hitter can play safely off the hill on the left.  The back right quarter of the green won’t hold any shot (I putted off the green my first round of the weekend).


17th hole: 194 yards, par 4

This is the back nine’s version of the 7th hole, but it plays longer and is often into the wind.  The dirt slope on the left often carries balls to the (again unnecessary) OB.  Not a great view from the tee:


18th hole: 673 yards, par 6

Well, here it is.  This hole is definitely short enough to be a par 5, I’ve seen players hole high in two.  A plaque on the tee commemorates a greenskeeper in 1929 who one the US amateur long drive contest here with an average drive of 427 yards!  I’m sure the fairway was firmer back then, though.  An interesting occurrence is the possibility of a downhill lie to an elevated green…

The stronger players can get the ball over the ridge to a somewhat level spot in the fairway:



The fairway is so steep that the cart path has switchbacks!


I hope at least a few of you enjoyed these pictures, and again, any criticism would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 03:02:20 AM by Ian_Linford »

Ian_L

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2008, 02:01:59 AM »
And don't worry, I won't be doing this for every course I play.  ;)

TX Golf

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2008, 02:13:16 AM »
Ian,

Great pics.... That eighteenth was always a fun hole to play when I was younger. My friends and I would all put in a dollar for the long drive. Only drive where you might be able to hit it as far is 18 at Kapalua. Are you from the Bay Area??

Ian_L

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2008, 03:00:36 AM »
Yes, I live about 5 minutes away from the course. ;)

I hadn't realized how dangerous that place is until I played it last weekend.  I can count at least 6 balls that came very close to hitting us, including one that whizzed less than a foot from my unsuspecting friend's head.  It keeps you on your toes!  While the lower rates are great, the 5h 45m round wasn't...
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 03:05:06 AM by Ian_Linford »

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2008, 03:05:34 AM »
I believe that William Locke is credited with the design of the course.


It's very short and absurdly hilly, but a must play for native Bay Area golfers looking for a quirky classic.

Ian,
Have you played the par 3 course yet?
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Ian_L

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2008, 03:12:22 AM »
Thanks for that info, Kyle.

I've played the par 3 course, but not for a couple years.  I do remember it was a challenge for me (doesn't say much!).

I had no idea so many people here have played this course...

Kalen Braley

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2008, 09:24:07 AM »
Ian,

Thanks for posting this up.  She won't win many beauty contests, but it is a fun little course with lots of quirk, blind shots, and different shot requirement that you don't see on most courses.

As usual, the pics don't do it justice with all the elevation differentials. 

You mentioned that 15 was a drab little short par 4 but I've always liked it.  Other than the spectacular views accross the bay, one can choose to drive the green with OB looming all the way down the right side.  And if you tug one left, you can find the crap too.

#16 is certainlty the coolest hole on the course other than #9, the massive drop shot par 3.

I've always felt that this course would make for a terrific match play course because there are certainly many places where one can go for it with all the short holes.  But with all the OB and Oaks with low branches its certainly can jump up and bite.

I should also mention that one plays perpinduclar to the entrance road several times on the front 9 and once on the back, so when you drive in you really need to be on the look out for balls flying.  ;D

Richard Boult

Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 09:47:33 AM »
she may not be a beauty, but she's now listed at:

http://delicious.com/golfclubatlas/California

Tom Huckaby

Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 09:54:53 AM »
Ian:

I had thought that the course closed for a time and underwent a major overhaul... looking at these pics, I see zero difference from the course I know, one I have played many times over the years (but not since the closure and reopening).

What was done during that closure, if anything?  Man the course looks exactly the same.....

TH

Jeff_Stettner

Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2008, 10:25:22 AM »
Thanks for the memories. I used to play Lake Chabot every week as a junior for the tidy sum of $1. I had forgotten how small those greens are...
Is the course playing fast? It looks it from the color of the poa.

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2008, 10:29:45 AM »
Tom:

I have been playing there since 1970 and it hasn't changed.  There are a few holes that have some interest but other than that, it's a course that needs some help from a good architect.

They closed it last year during the winter to try and save money since it looses money in those months but they ran a skelaton crew and didn't make any changes.

A few years ago a group of investors who I think were associated with the Claremont Hotel tried to buy it but the public squaked since they planned to turn it into a counry club for a day and the green fees would run well over $100 per day.   In hindsight it probably was a good thing since he economy tanked and it probably wouldn't have worked financially.

Now that Robert Bobb is back with the City of Oakland he may try and do something to fix it up?  It's not even the best muni in Oakland, Metropolitan is far better and there are numerous other public courses I would play before playing Lake Chabot.

Tom Huckaby

Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2008, 10:36:04 AM »
Tom:

I have been playing there since 1970 and it hasn't changed.  There are a few holes that have some interest but other than that, it's a course that needs some help from a good architect.

They closed it last year during the winter to try and save money since it looses money in those months but they ran a skelaton crew and didn't make any changes.

A few years ago a group of investors who I think were associated with the Claremont Hotel tried to buy it but the public squaked since they planned to turn it into a counry club for a day and the green fees would run well over $100 per day.   In hindsight it probably was a good thing since he economy tanked and it probably wouldn't have worked financially.

Now that Robert Bobb is back with the City of Oakland he may try and do something to fix it up?  It's not even the best muni in Oakland, Metropolitan is far better and there are numerous other public courses I would play before playing Lake Chabot.

AHA!  Many thanks, Joel.

I'd agree Metro is a better golf course.  But Lake Chabot does have its charms and add me to those who are happy it did not get turned into a CCFAD.  We have plenty of those.  We have previous few interesting munis with high bang for the buck value.  Lake Chabot gives you that.

TH

Kalen Braley

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2008, 10:40:23 AM »
Joel,

Closing it during the winter rainy months actually makes sense as it could very well be the worst course drainage-wise that I've ever played.  When I use to live in the East Bay, I always avoided it until the start of summer and would play it until the riany season started again in December.

I agree with Huck as well, I don't see anything new they have done to the course, other than mow some of the unirrigated areas between the tees and fairways.

Lake Chabot is a fun course though and as quirky as it is, I think its short par 3 course may be even more so.  It isn't much to look at either, but I think the executive par 3 course may be the funnest short course I've ever played.


John Keenan

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2008, 10:44:37 AM »
I was under the impression that they did some work on Chabot to improve its drainage. I have played it once or twice and it is quirky but a nice outing at a reasonable price

Amazing being that close to downtown Oakland and being out in nature nice situation.

Metropolitan is excellent but a very different course from Chabot. Both nice in their own ways.
The things a man has heard and seen are threads of life, and if he pulls them carefully from the confused distaff of memory, any who will can weave them into whatever garments of belief please them best.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2008, 10:52:28 AM »
I was under the impression that they did some work on Chabot to improve its drainage. I have played it once or twice and it is quirky but a nice outing at a reasonable price

Amazing being that close to downtown Oakland and being out in nature nice situation.

Metropolitan is excellent but a very different course from Chabot. Both nice in their own ways.

John,

This could very well be, its been several years since I played it last!!

It is in a great location as it butts right up to a regional park which in Nor Cal means it will never get developed.  And in the summer, it can play fast and firm in many spots.  Nothing to see if your visiting, but if one moves to the area, should definitly go give it a look.

Ian_L

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2008, 12:13:05 PM »
Is the course playing fast? It looks it from the color of the poa.

I wouldn't say they're fast on an absolute scale, but considering the slope of the greens they definitely are.  They're in quite good shape as well, although some of the smaller ones get bumpy in the afternoon.  The fairways aren't the fastest, which might be good since holes like #11 can barely hold a golf ball on the slope!

I also heard they redid the drainage over the winter, but I still wouldn't get near that course after a rainy day.

Does anybody know why they have all that in-course OB?  It drives me crazy.

Tom Huckaby

Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2008, 12:23:00 PM »
Is the course playing fast? It looks it from the color of the poa.

Does anybody know why they have all that in-course OB?  It drives me crazy.

Likely to avoid too many golfer deaths.   ;)

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2008, 01:23:48 PM »
Thanks Ian for the photo tour.  I haven't played the course since 1985 or 86, and I have almost no memory of the course except for the 18th.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

John Keenan

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2008, 01:31:17 PM »
Kevin I would suspect that the hole everyone remembers is the 18th. Quirky but quite interesting.
The things a man has heard and seen are threads of life, and if he pulls them carefully from the confused distaff of memory, any who will can weave them into whatever garments of belief please them best.

TX Golf

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2008, 01:49:17 PM »
I am interested to hear anyones thoughts on Lake Chabot vs. Tilden??


Tom Huckaby

Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2008, 02:01:06 PM »
I am interested to hear anyones thoughts on Lake Chabot vs. Tilden??



LOL
That's not quite NGLA v. Shinnecock, another thread going on now.

I'd put it this way:  the courses are pretty damn similar.  Each has always had massive drainage issues.  Each is full of quirk, and each gives a darn good bang for the buck. 

In the end, I'd just go with whichever one has decent conditions.  But assuming that is equal, I'd tend to slightly prefer Lake Chabot.  Neither is your classic test of golf, and Lake Chabot is just a little bit weirder on the overall, so it's a bit more fun for me.  But the courses in the end are pretty darn equal as I see it.

TH

TX Golf

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2008, 02:07:18 PM »
Tom,

I have pretty much the exact same feeling about the two courses. The are very similar in some aspects and as you mentioned filled with fun and quirk. However, I think I would lean the other direction and go for Tilden over Chabot. Since they are munis I agree that whichever has the better conditioning at the moment (which can change quite quickly) is the way to go. The are both must plays for us Bay Area natives. Just three years ago as a junior I could play Tilden for under 5 bucks. Great Value!!!!

It isn't Shinnecock vs. NGLA, but that is what I love about GCA. It is just as much fun to discuss Chabot vs. Tilden as some of the best courses in the world. 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 02:32:37 PM by Robert Warren »

Tom Huckaby

Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2008, 02:10:49 PM »
All very well said, Robert.  And I really ought to disqualify myself as it's been sadly at least 5 years since I've played either.  I definitely have enjoyed each though.  And heck yeah, this is just as fun as comparing those private greats that so few will ever play.  It just struck me as kinda funny to compare these two at the same time as those other two, that's all.   ;D


TX Golf

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2008, 02:13:25 PM »
Tom,

That was a funny coincidence as I had not even seen the NGLA vs. Shinnecock when I thought about Tilden and Chabot.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Lake Chabot Golf Course (with pics)
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2008, 02:30:13 PM »
My vote would also be for Tilden Park over Lake Chabot, but just slightly. While they are similar, I think Tilden plays tighter and isn't as severe with the elevation differentials.  And as I recall Tilden has a lot more bunkering thank LC.

There are some very cool holes and would be interesting to see a review of that course as well.

Ian, you have your next assigment!!   ;D