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james soper

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did pete dye really say this?
« on: August 27, 2008, 11:47:08 AM »
"this is the best course I've ever built"-  pete dye quote in an ad for colleton river in this month's links magazine. does he really mean it? does this fly in the face of his love affair with casa de campo or tpc sawgrass. was he just a shill for developers so they could sell more homes? if the latter is the case, do you lose some respect for him if he really doesn't believe it to be his best work.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 11:55:46 AM »
Who knows. Maybe they left off the last half of the quote, which may have gone something like "on billiard table flat ground that didn't drain and where the Owner just wouldn't get out of my fricking hair for even two minutes to let me do what I wanted." :D
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 12:04:24 PM »
Pete Dye is a treasure.

My favorite all time quote from an architect is from Dye's interview with Ran on this site.

When asked what he liked most about Raynor courses, Dye replied, "Their variety."

On repeated readings, I still laugh out loud.

I would love to meet him someday.

Bob

 

Anthony Fowler

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Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2008, 01:11:12 PM »
Hi Bob,

I just read the Dye interview for the first time.  Thanks for the laughs.

I have a feeling that meeting him would be more of the same emotions:slight disappointment and incredible humor.  I had the chance to meet Nicklaus recently and had the same kind of experience; I laughed my ass off for the entire drive home.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2008, 01:22:33 PM »
CR Dye is that good. Its EASILY, without question, the most underrated course Dye has done and have flown under the radar way too long. Id play it over anything in Hilton Head and even over The Ocean Course.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2008, 01:29:38 PM »
Pete Dye says Casa de Campo is his favorite course, because of the huge number of people that gained employment from it. I don't believe he says it is his best course.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Joel Zuckerman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2008, 02:11:36 PM »
Pete is no different than most architects, who maintain a degreee of political correctness when discussing their courses.  A classic line that can be attributed to virtually any modern architect when asked which GC is their favorite--"It's like asking me which of my kids I love the most."

Furthermore--Pete has said that the little-seen Ford Plantation, south of Savannah, is "arguably my finest southern design."  He has great fondness for some of his University courses, including Purdue and Va Tech.  Bottom line--he'll always say something nice, usually qualified, but it's hard to pin him down as to his all-time favorite, though he would admit that Teeth is at or near the top of the list.

Tim Liddy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2008, 02:12:01 PM »
Mr. Dye has said it more than once and I know he feels Colleton is one of his very best efforts. It is very creative and sculptural as only Dye does it. A master’s work on a great piece of ground.

TEPaul

Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2008, 02:21:20 PM »
"I would love to meet him someday."

Bob:

You sure would. In my opinion, Pete is one of those semi-unusual guys with whom I've always had the distinct impression he has a very fine sense of and appreciation for the absurd, if you know what I mean. The thing is he probably doesn't get much let up on that from Alice. But they aren't exactly what you might expect that way because I think most people may never see that side of either of them.

Here's how I read him and them. When you're around them in certain times and places, I've always gotten the impression they can both be very serious with some people they aren't that sure of as they sit there and try to figure out just how absurd they may be able to get with them given the opportunity.

I think that's why Pete and Alice were so fond of my Dad---they both knew real well with him they could be as absurd as they felt like because he sure could be (last time I saw Pete he told me he will never forget the time he was at Dad's house and the phone was ringing and Dad didn't answer it. Pete said: "Jimmy, aren't you going to answer the phone?" and Dad told Pete: "Nah, I can tell by the ring it's not for me,"). But I think for the longest time they weren't sure about my stepmother that way.

If you ever do meet them with me around I'm going to tell them both that you are a really super serious guy and I want you to watch them both studing you. If you pay attention really carefully you may even see Pete look at Alice with a slight expression that says to her something like; "This is bullshit."   ;)

So, my point is, if you're around Pete (or Alice) if they something outrageous just look at them carefully and you may be able to pick up on their sense and appreciaton of the best of the absurd.

This is probably all confirmed by P.B. He really is one of the funniest guys I've ever met.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 02:30:29 PM by TEPaul »

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2008, 03:12:22 PM »


Let's go to Colleton River...




























BLUFFTON, S.C. - When legendary golf course architect Pete Dye, designer of the Dye course at Colleton River Plantation met with club officials recently, he gave them a shockingly good statement.

"This is the best course I have ever built," announced Dye, the man behind renowned courses such as the TPC Sawgrass, Whistling Straits and Harbor Town Golf Links.

"We're not arguing with him," said John Ussery, the developer at Colleton River. "I think what Dye loves about Colleton is the piece of property. You can see the Atlantic Ocean from 10 of the holes."




TEPaul

Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2008, 03:24:04 PM »
That's Pete alright. I would so much just love to know what C.B. Macdonald would say about Colleton River if he could come back today and see it. I would hope to hell he wouldn't dredge up that "Marcel Wave" remark of his but knowing some of the things he said about architecture sometimes he just might. But then someone could tell C.B. that Pete Dye must have been heavily influenced by his architectural style and things would probably be OK again.

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2008, 05:21:19 PM »
I've always been intrigued by this course. I've never played it but have always heard Dye say glowing things about it. I think Ron Whitten even said it was a top 100 course and was better than Long Cove.
From pictures I can tell that Dye's style at this course won't be everyone's cup of tea, especially in todays day and age where minimalism runs supreme. From pictures I mostly like the look of the place.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2008, 05:30:00 PM »
That's Pete alright. I would so much just love to know what C.B. Macdonald would say about Colleton River if he could come back today and see it. I would hope to hell he wouldn't dredge up that "Marcel Wave" remark of his but knowing some of the things he said about architecture sometimes he just might. But then someone could tell C.B. that Pete Dye must have been heavily influenced by his architectural style and things would probably be OK again.

Looks like Pete learned something from CB...



What a beautiful flat-bottomed bunker and grass face!

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2008, 05:47:01 PM »

I think Ron Whitten even said it was a top 100 course and was better than Long Cove.


Agreed 100%... sorry anthony I don't get all the love for the Cove. Honestly thought it was average??? but that is one jerk's opinion.

Fergie and Patton will kill me for posting that on line! Tell Bob I say hello and we eagerly await his return in January... you should really try to make it down with that crowd.

james soper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2008, 05:58:42 PM »
Pete Dye says Casa de Campo is his favorite course, because of the huge number of people that gained employment from it. I don't believe he says it is his best course.

Pete is no different than most architects, who maintain a degreee of political correctness when discussing their courses.  A classic line that can be attributed to virtually any modern architect when asked which GC is their favorite--"It's like asking me which of my kids I love the most."

Furthermore--Pete has said that the little-seen Ford Plantation, south of Savannah, is "arguably my finest southern design."  He has great fondness for some of his University courses, including Purdue and Va Tech.  Bottom line--he'll always say something nice, usually qualified, but it's hard to pin him down as to his all-time favorite, though he would admit that Teeth is at or near the top of the list.


gentlemen, do you honestly believe that pete dye thinks colleton river is the "best course he has ever built". if so, i've got some swamp land in the everglades i'd like to sell you.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 06:01:54 PM by james soper »

TEPaul

Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2008, 06:05:32 PM »
"Looks like Pete learned something from CB..."

BillB:

I believe so. If I'm not mistaken I believe I heard somewhere along the line that Dye has always loved Macdonald architecture.

Joel Zuckerman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2008, 06:32:58 PM »
For what it's worth---I have always preferred the Nicklaus Course at Colleton River over Pete's effort, though I do like them both.  Pete's is more avant-garde, with the mounding, shaping and proliferation of bunkering, while the Nicklaus course is more traditional, with an eye-popping finish (15--17) approaching and paralleling the Colleton River itself.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2008, 06:51:50 PM »

[/quote]

Agreed 100%... sorry anthony I don't get all the love for the Cove. Honestly thought it was average??? but that is one jerk's opinion.

Fergie and Patton will kill me for posting that on line! Tell Bob I say hello and we eagerly await his return in January... you should really try to make it down with that crowd.
[/quote]

Greg,
  I got a call into fergie-He owns that Island, so you'd better check with him before crossing the toll bridge! :)
  I take no offense. I thoroughly LOVE The Cove but enjoy the vase degree of shot angels and difficulty at CR Dye. I think that CR Dye rewards a more difficult shot than LCC does. I think that the better player enjoys CR Dye more, which is probably why it gets less play than the Nick. Either way, both CR Dye and LCC are head and shoulders above anything else around include Chechessee, Secession and Harbor Town. May River is a soild #3.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2008, 09:06:58 AM »
Dye has a similar quote at Pete Dye Club.  Something along the line of "this" being the best piece of property he has ever worked on.

Many architects I interview for articles respond when asked to state their favorite course by saying, "The one I'm currently working on!"

JC

Bruce Wellmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2011, 12:08:23 AM »
Thouroughly enjoyed a recent round at Colleton River's Dye course.
Elements of Whisting Straits, elements of TPC Sawgrass, and elements of Secession pre Devlin.
What is that grass in the rough areas? That is tough stuff.

Par 3 third.

Par 3 6th. I just loved the flat topped mounds.

The ninth hole.

The approach on #10.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2011, 06:36:15 PM »
Pete Dye says Casa de Campo is his favorite course, because of the huge number of people that gained employment from it. I don't believe he says it is his best course.


and wildly overrated in my opinion.... very good but not top 50 good

Joel_Stewart

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Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2011, 07:35:06 PM »
I think you need to work with him to really get to know him?  I met him once and spent less then 10 minutes with him and didn't come away with anything.  He did say something which I believe is true "I'm the only guy you'll ever meet that knew Donald Ross".  I tried to talk with him about Seminole which I played the day before.  He said the greens are not what Ross built and he basically doesn't go there anymore, just pays his bill so Alice can go.

Tim Gavrich

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Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2011, 10:34:08 PM »
I think they hold a US Am qualifier at CR--Dye every summer.  Might have to try and play in that one this coming year...
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2011, 01:56:54 PM »
The grass in the rough is centipede. Mr Dye has used this grass over the year because of its low growing characteristics, with has helped with the maintenance of his bunkers and mounding. Long Cove had this at one time along with TPC, I beleive.
  I always those the CR Dye was the BEST Dye design in the low country, even better than Long Cove. As good as LC is and I try to avoid bias because of my time there, its just that CR Dye has SOOO much variety and plays different everyday because of the winds coming in off the water. I've always thought Mr Dye was a modern day Raynor and the slopes and angles at CR confirm this.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: did pete dye really say this?
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2011, 02:02:25 PM »
Pete Dye says Casa de Campo is his favorite course, because of the huge number of people that gained employment from it. I don't believe he says it is his best course.


and wildly overrated in my opinion.... very good but not top 50 good

??? What's the point?
Whether or not it's overrated has nothing to do with being his favorite.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne