Golf Magazine 2008 100 Top You Can Play Now Online!!!

[Richard Choi]

http://search.golf.com/top-courses-and-resorts/top-100-courses-you-can-play-2008.html

Perhaps we can have more detailed discussions now...

Count by architects:

Arthur Hills - 3
C&C - 4
Dick Wilson - 2
Donald Ross - 4
Donald Trump!!! - 1
Geoff Shackelford, Gill Hanse - 1
Jack Nicklaus (and Co) - 8
Jim Engh - 4
Michael Hurdzan, Dana Fry - 2
Pete Dye - 9
Rees Jones - 3
Rick Smith - 2
RTJ II - 6
RTJ - 4
Tom Doak - 2
Tom Fazio - 12!!!
Tom Weiskopf, Jay Morrish - 2

[John Handley]

Best news I've heard all day.

[John Moore II]

Good to see the list online. Are the best in state lists online as well? I did not see them.

[Richard Choi]

One more interesting thing, they have an interactive map where they list the top 100: http://www.golf.com/golf/i/specialfeatures/top100ycp/top100ycp.html

I see that following states are not represented in the top 100 you can play list:

Utah, Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Indiana, Kentucky, Pennsylvania (shocking), Vermont, Tennessee, Louisianna, Arkansas, and Kansas.

Which state really deserve to have a course on that list out of these states?

[David Stamm]

Good to see that they have Bell, jr as the ONLY Bell to work on Torrey Pines despite some erroneous reporting during Open week

[Wyatt Halliday]

One more interesting thing, they have an interactive map where they list the top 100: http://www.golf.com/golf/i/specialfeatures/top100ycp/top100ycp.html

I see that following states are not represented in the top 100 you can play list:

Utah, Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Indiana, Kentucky, Pennsylvania (shocking), Vermont, Tennessee, Louisianna, Arkansas, and Kansas.

Which state really deserve to have course on that list out of these states?

WY, LA, AR do not have any that I can vouch for. There are some good ones, but none that I would place near those on the list that I have played.

[Matt_Ward]

Richard:

It's not shocking to see Pennsy without a public course listed because the state is really one of the worst in the nation for top tier public layouts. The private side is excellent - the public side is quite inferior to many.

The same can be said for New York State as well save for the likes of Bethpage Black and a few others.

[Kalen Braley]

I can't say that any Public course here in Northern Utah should be on that list...even though I don't think Thanksgiving Point is too far away from Circling Raven in Idaho at # 93.

The resort course at CDA doesn't really belong in my opinion.  Yes its beautiful and conditions are 2nd to none, but not top 100.

I would also think Saddle Creek in Copperopolis, CA belongs on this list, but perhaps its just a bit too remote to get the rounds and people to see it.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen - curious about Utah - man I recall some of those courses near or in St. George to be pretty damn good... are none in the class of say Redlands Mesa (#96)?

I've never played that but I thought you had.... thus just a common example hopefully....

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen - curious about Utah - man I recall some of those courses near or in St. George to be pretty damn good... are none in the class of say Redlands Mesa (#96)?

I've never played that but I thought you had.... thus just a common example hopefully....

TH

Tom,

You make a good point.  I've only played 1 course in Southern Utah, (not one of the known ones) so that was an error on my part.  I'm sure one or some of those courses could compete on that level, I just haven't seen them.

So my edited post should say, nothing in Northern Utah belongs on there.

P.S. I have played Redlands Mesa and I feel its a much better course than Circling Raven and CDA Resort.

P.P.S.  I've been talking to the wife to make a road trip to Southern utah this fall.  I really need to get down there now.   

[Garland Bayley]

The love KBM gets here makes PA absence shocking to us in the treehouse.

[Cliff Hamm]

Haven't played Bethpage Red but it seems to be held in high regard.  Is it deserving of being a top 100 public?

[Garland Bayley]

Haven't played Bethpage Red but it seems to be held in high regard.  Is it deserving of being a top 100 public?

Kyle Harris, you keep quite now!
 

[Richard Choi]

Kalen, you bring up another good topic for discussion:

What course on this list DOES NOT belong here? We always talk about courses that should be on the list but isn't. But obviously, we can't add those courses if we don't take some off the list first.

So what are the consensus over-rated course on this list (not that it is rated too high, but that it does not belong at all)?

I would nominate the following:

Reflection Bay - 64
Doral (Blue Monster) - 98

[Kalen Braley]

Richard,

I would agree with your two picks and also add Trump National to go along with CDA.

On a side note, how often do you see a top 100 you can play being slated for being tore up and NLE, in Beechtree.  I sure wish I was closer to have a go before its strewn under.

[Garland Bayley]

Shoot there must be 12 sure fire conscenious deletions by the members of this treehouse.
 

[Craig Sweet]

You only have to go down to #30 to find a course that the average Joe 6 pack golfer might be able to afford to play.

[Michael Dugger]

The Oregon and Washington lists leaving something to be desired....IMHO

[RJ_Daley]

I did a guestimate on the stated fees and their ranges.  It looks like about an average of $200 a round, a little over $10 a hole.   

[Richard Choi]

I would agree with your two picks and also add Trump National to go along with CDA.

But... but... that would remove the delicious irony of Donald Trump being listed among other "premier" golf architects in the country!!!

And I don't have very high opinions for any profession where you can call Donald Trump as one of your colleagues...

[Sean_A]

Richard:

It's not shocking to see Pennsy without a public course listed because the state is really one of the worst in the nation for top tier public layouts. The private side is excellent - the public side is quite inferior to many.

The same can be said for New York State as well save for the likes of Bethpage Black and a few others.

Matt

I can't speak to the depth of Penn publics, but I find it hard to believe Lederach doesn't qualify.  Once I start looking at that 3rd ten I gotta believe this is where things can get a bit shakey.

I spose it shouldn't be surprising that The Road didn't make it either.  Though it not being included makes me wonder about the raters rather than the course.   

Ciao

[Andy Troeger]

Troon North Pinnacle shouldn't make the list IMO...something tells me I'd say the same thing about Monument as well.

Most of the courses at the top of the list are pretty standard and should be there. The biggest weakness I see is that this list seems to include all the BIG money places that from comments may or may not really be great courses. I haven't played quite a few of those though, so I could be totally wrong about their merits. In addition to Troon North, do Grayhawk, Trump National, Doral, Wynn, and the like merit inclusion?

Also, IMO the Engh courses are too low. Lakota Canyon, Redlands, and Tullymore should easily be in the top fifty.

It seems to be with all the good public courses in Indiana that something should be included. That said, none of my favorites in that state even make the top five on the state list, and as usual Sultan's Run isn't included at all. I'd play it, Rock Hollow, Warren, The Fort, and French Lick before Troon North any day.

[Tim Book]

I would nominate both The Glen Club and Wynn Las Vegas for elimination.  Wynn was an interesting expierence on an average golf course. 

I would not be alone in thinking that Tobacco Road should be added.  I am always surprised that Running Y Ranch in Klamath Falls doesn't make this list.

Kalen,  I was lucky to tackle CDA, Circling Raven and The Club at Black Rock a few weeks back.  I would think that CDA would make the list, toward the bottom.    All 18 holes aren't stunners, but there is enough there to keep it in the Top 100 for me.

[Carl Nichols]

The biggest weakness I see is that this list seems to include all the BIG money places that from comments may or may not really be great courses. I haven't played quite a few of those though, so I could be totally wrong about their merits. In addition to Troon North, do Grayhawk, Trump National, Doral, Wynn, and the like merit inclusion?

I agree, and this would explain the inclusion of one of the courses I've played that I think shouldn't be on this list -- Reynolds Oconee.  A perfectly fine though bland course, usually in great condition, but top 100???  And hardly a value proposition.

[Anthony Fowler]

Interesting to see Chambers between Bethpage and Spyglass.  Sounds about right to me, what do you guys think?  Should we expect to see it fall in this vicinity on next year's Top 100 U.S. list?