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Scott Macpherson

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2008, 10:09:14 AM »
One of the great links course in Australasia was designed with no fairway bunkers. Namely Paraparaumu Beach Golf Club in New Zealand. Designed by A Russell about 60 years ago, two bunkers were put about 150yards down the right side of the 18th to block the view up the driving range, but apart from these (which don't really count), for years it had no fairways bunkers.

However 3 years ago, Greg Turner added a fairway bunker on the left of the par 5 12th, and two through the fairway on the 18th. This is, I believe, all it has today. i.e two holes with fairway bunkers, and only 3 fairway bunkers in total.

Interesting.

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2008, 01:58:09 PM »


Fishers Island: 2



KBanks

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2008, 02:25:52 PM »
Peachtree has relatively few fairway bunkers on the tee shot. It does have several strategic bunkers well short of the green complexes on three of the par five holes.

One tends to think Bobby Jones had substantial influence on this, as such an approach wasn't characteristic throughout RTJ's career, I don't believe.

Ken

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2008, 10:40:17 AM »
Engh's new Four Mile Ranch GC in Canon City, CO has zero bunkers- fairway or green side!!!

www.fourmileranch.com

"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Scott Macpherson

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2008, 10:59:58 AM »
Is there any reason why he designed the course with no bunkers? (i.e economic, environmental, practical, promotional?)

scott

Mike Benham

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2008, 11:08:15 AM »
Lake Course at Olympic only has one. 


Why does everyone forget the first hole?  Fairway bunkers don't necessarily have to be within the first 280 yards of the hole ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Bill_McBride

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2008, 11:35:48 AM »
Lake Course at Olympic only has one. 


Why does everyone forget the first hole?  Fairway bunkers don't necessarily have to be within the first 280 yards of the hole ...

Liquid Alzheimers.  ;)

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2008, 09:05:50 PM »
# 17 at WFE, a par 3 with NO bunkers.

David Stamm

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2008, 09:37:46 PM »
Behr refers here and there to Lakeside having very few bunkers.  You don't see many in the Bobby Jones instructional films. Does anyone have the lowdown?

 


Bob, I wish Tommy were here to answer this, but Behr made up for the small amount of bunkers with his big imitation sand dunes.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Mike_Clayton

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2008, 04:05:40 AM »
Scott,

Your observation of Paraparaumu is interesting.The crumpled gound there almost dictates there is no need for fairway bunkering.There are so many great driving holes there simply because of the land - 1,2,4,8,11,13,15 and 17.
Its hard to see where you would put them.

The West Course (MacKenzie) at Royal Melbourne is highlighted by the influence of fairway bunkers - 2,4,6,8,10,,11,12,17 and 18 - but Russell's East has almost no fairway drive bunkers after the common bunkers on the 1st shared with the 8th West.

2,4,5,9,10,11,12,14,15,17 and 18 have no drive bunkers but the recently redone 7th and 8th holes now have them.
In contrast he did quite a few at Yarra Yarra.

Scott Macpherson

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2008, 04:15:37 AM »
HI Mike,

I would suggest PBGC add a fairway pot on the 7th hole through. There is a nice hollow about 240m down the fairway on the right side that regularly collects tees shots on that short par 5. If there was a bunker in that hollow, golfers would have to make a decision. Lay up short of the bunker (thus taking the green out of reach) or try to thread their drive down the left side of the undulating fairway between the water hazard and the new bunker I am proposing.

You know the course (didn't you win there?), what do you think?

scott

PS- I am not sure Alex Russell ever imagined people would be hitting the ball the distances they do now. If so, he may have put fairway bunkers in at PBGC himself.

Mike_Clayton

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2008, 05:08:22 AM »
Scott.

I love the course. I think 17 is one of the great holes in golf and worth playing there for it alone.

I the later years I was there - highlighted by the Tiger Woods Open - the greens had gotten awfully soft and the strategy of the whole course was lost because the greens could be approached from the wrong sides of the fairways - 4 was probably the most notable example.
With a hard green you could cut fairway down the hill on the 8th and give players the option of driving down there but the pitch would be really difficult and with the wind behind it would be almost impossible to hit a hard green.

It looked like the greenkeepers answer was to grow long rough and really narrow the fairways which made them awfully difficult to hit in the wind because they are so bouncy and undulating.
The best round I ever played as a pro was the final round of the 1988 NZ Open.
It was howling - 1 irons into 2 and 3 and a 4 iron into 16 - and I shot 65 on a day only one other player broke 70 to finish second.
The ground was really hard and I felt like I drove the ball really well but I actually hit only one fairway from the tee - and you can ask Turner how straight I could hit it!!!

I hear the course is in much better condition now which is important given its the second best course in the country.

Scott Macpherson

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2008, 05:24:33 AM »
HI Mike,

Just as well there were no fairway bunkers in 1988 then huh!  :D 65. Great round though. Who won that year?

Yes, the greens were horribly soft for a bunch of years. But the new greenkeepers have turned back the irrigation program (the killer of many good links), and are getting the course back to that 'hard and fast' condition that shows it at its best.

17 is a great hole, but it's the collection of par 3's that I have come to most enjoy. 4 3's is a good result, though, 4 2's is not impossible.

I am glad the Club saw sense and put the 18th back into it's original form. The hole, straightened, as it played for Tigers visit, was a miscarriage of golfing justice.

Your post does beg me to ask one question... what is your number one course in NZ. (I think I know, but have to ask anyway)

scott

Mike_Clayton

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2008, 07:33:11 AM »
Scott,

Ian Stanley won that year.
I agree 18 is a much better hole from the old tee.I'm not sure why they changed it for that one event.

 I think you have to rate Kidnappersas the best course  - but Paraparaumu has some terrific holes. I look forward to seeing it in good condition.

Sean_A

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2008, 05:49:54 AM »
Would it be fair to say that one of the main differences between championship links and other links is the amount of bunkering in play? 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Chechesee Creek & Old Barnwell

Forrest Richardson

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Re: Courses with holes without fairway bunkers
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2008, 10:27:51 AM »
The highest ranked course with no fairway bunkers is likely Desert Forest north of Phoenix. Early 1960s Red Lawrence.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
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