[Jeff_Mingay]

SCOREGolf -- Canada's national golf magazine -- revealed its bi-ennial list of the Top-100 courses in the country today.

Unfortunately I missed the unveiling on TV this morning. Apparently, this show featured commentary from SCOREGolf editor Bob Weeks, Lorne Rubenstein, and GCA's own Robert Thompson. (Perhaps Rob knows when they might be replaying this broadcast?)

Here's the list, for those interested:
http://scoregolf.com/rankings/top100/top-100-golf-courses-in-canada-2008.cfm

[Tom_Doak]

They put a list of golf courses on TV?

[Jason McNamara]

Beacon Hall at #6, eh?  St. Thomas & Scarboro outside the top 50.  Cataraqui almost 60 spots behind Devil's Pulpit.

Looking forward to comments from Rob, Ian, Ben, etc.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tom,

Yeah, there was a half-hour show on TSN (The Sports Network... Canada's version of ESPN) this morning. Again, I missed it.

Jason,

I hate to be too frank here, but Beacon Hall is NOT #6 in Canada. This is one I'm willing to debate, if need be 

[Jason McNamara]

Jason,

I hate to be too frank here, but Beacon Hall is NOT #6 in Canada. This is one I'm willing to debate, if need be 

Jeff,

Yeah, that was the most obvious when looking at the list.


Edit:  Looks like there's a replay Tues. afternoon at 2 Eastern.  Maybe they'll put it on their web site for the rest of us.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Any Canadian list that doesn't start with a Stanley Thompson course or three is highly suspect 

Ulrich

[Will MacEwen]

They put a list of golf courses on TV?

There isn't much curling in August.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Any Canadian list that doesn't start with a Stanley Thompson course or three is highly suspect 

Ulrich

The Toronto Terror has 3 of the top 5, but they are Nos. 3,4 &5 - St. Georges, Highland Links and Jasper.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I hate to be too frank here, but Beacon Hall is NOT #6 in Canada. This is one I'm willing to debate, if need be 

I haven't had the opportunity to play Beacon Hall but nor is Crowbush Cove #8 in the country, not even close.  If the course was in Toronto (where the scenery wouldn't be as nice but the mosquitoes wouldn't be so bad) it wouldn't even make the top 100.

Royal Colwood is a nice course but I wouldn't put it at #16 - personally I think it is the second best course in Victoria.  Eagle's Nest is better than 23.  Mississauga is #38 but they have just changed all of their greens - which course did raters play?  Copper Creek at #45 - I don't think it deserves to make the Greater Toronto top 45 - no way it is better than Rosedale, Weston, St. Thomas, Summit or Scarboro.  Devil's Paintbrush fell to #10 from #4 last time - it is closer to #4 than 10.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Wayne,

I don't even know where to start. It seems I could write a book on this list 

[Ronald Montesano]

Ulrich...that's like saying that any USA course that doesn't start with a Robert Trent Jones, Senior course is suspect.  There is greater golf in Canada than Thompson, from homebreds like McBroom, Carrick, Andrew and others, and from architects from Canada's skirt (aka the US.)

Sad to see that Cherry Hill did not make the list and, in spite of the sacks of money poured into Niagara Falls, Ontario, not one of the new courses (Legends, Grand Niagara, Thundering Waters, Royal Niagara) made the list.

[Garland Bayley]

Andrew? Who's Andrew?

Where's Whitman in your list?

And amazingly you didn't mention Mingay.

[Mike_Clayton]

Jeff,

I know you haven't been to Australia so its no use asking you ( ! ) but for anybody who has a reasonable knowledge of the top 100 in Canada and Australia how would number 1, number 50 and number 100 compare?

[Robert Thompson]

They put a list of golf courses on TV?

They did -- for an hour. To spice things up, they brought in myself and Lorne Rubenstein and we had a discussion about a wide variety of things relating to design and architecture. I thought it went pretty well.

Typically Score posts the show to their website -- I'll find out if that's going to be the case.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Mike,

I'm going to see you in Melbourne sooner than later!

I'm of the opinion this Top-100 list is too long for Canada. A Top-50 is much more appropriate. I do know our number one -- which seems to change every two years! -- can't compare to Australia's number one. This is obvious... as long as Royal Melbourne remains in the top spot?

I'd be interested to hear how 50 and 100 in our respective countries compare though. Good question. Which are those courses in Aus.?   

[Jeff_Mingay]

Just noticed Rob Thompson has some interesting commentary at his blog re SCOREGolf's list: http://www.ontgolf.ca/g4g/

[Wayne_Kozun]

They put a list of golf courses on TV?

They did -- for an hour. To spice things up, they brought in myself and Lorne Rubenstein and we had a discussion about a wide variety of things relating to design and architecture. I thought it went pretty well.

Typically Score posts the show to their website -- I'll find out if that's going to be the case.

It would be great to see this kind of stuff on TGC as well - they sure could use some filler for some of their time and why not get a few talking heads to debate the architecture merit of the world's best golf courses.  I would prefer it to instructional shows.

[Matt Bosela]

Sad to see that Cherry Hill did not make the list and, in spite of the sacks of money poured into Niagara Falls, Ontario, not one of the new courses (Legends, Grand Niagara, Thundering Waters, Royal Niagara) made the list.

Yes, Cherry Hill was ranked 89th on the 2006 list but obviously dropped off in '08.  Another Niagara course, the Thompson-designed Whirpool GC also dropped off in '08 after being rated 91st on the previous list.  That leaves the fantastic Lookout Point GCC as the only Niagara-area club on the list.

While I like both Cherry Hill and Whirlpool, I definitely agree with the raters - they would both be marginal choices as top-100 clubs in the country.  Lookout Point, however, is underrated in my eyes and should be closer to the middle of the list.

The Legends facility (Carrick's Battlefield and McBroom's Ussher's Creek) and Grand Niagara (Rees Jones) are well-conditioned and decent tracks but ultimately uninspiring golf courses that don't deserve a spot on the list.

The John Daly/Bo Danoff collaboration Thundering Waters is an artistic and financial failure.  And that is me being kind   Royal Niagara (Ted Baker) is in the same class as Thundering Waters.

Most of the land in the area is pretty flat, making it great for all the wineries popping up but it isn't so great for the quality of golf.  A course that sits right on the escarpment, like Lookout, has a distinct advantage over everything else in the area.  We have some nice topography at my club (St. Catharines GCC - Thompson) but it pales in comparison to Lookout.

[Scott Stambaugh]

First, I'm by no means an expert on golf courses in Canada.  But I do know this-

We road tiripped up to Victoria a few months ago to play Royal Colwood, Victoria and a third course.  As I continue to debate with myself which course was my all-around favorite of the three we played, I keep coming back to the third course- Gorge Vale.

It definitely has a few less than stellar attributes- the clubhouse is in need of an update (which they are in the middle of doing.)  The area has been swallowed up by the city- you can literally walk from the practice putting green to a strip mall in about thirty seconds.  Makes for a lot of noise around the clubhouse area.  The club (for probably financial reasons) sold off some real estate on a beautiful par 3 (#5,) which a developer went and built a monsterous condo project, something similar to what you might see up in Whister.

But, I can overlook non-golf items such as these.  Speaking strictly in terms of the golf course- it is fabulous.  A.V. Macan, with some recent work done by Les Furber (I was told this, I never confirmed it because the people we were playing with did not know exactly what was done.)  If anything WAS done, I think it was a testament to Furber's work.  Other than some green surrounds that had a modern, mounded, uniform look, and a few rebuilt tees, it was diffcult to detect anything else.  Several of the greens were classic Macan greens- wild slopes and punishment for being above the hole.

I have a hard time accepting the fact that this is, at best, #101 in Canada...

Scott

Here's a picture of the par 3 #14- good stuff.



 

[Ian Andrew]

Andrew? Who's Andrew?

Yeah, who is Andrew?

[Ian Andrew]

FYI: Architects can not vote in this ranking panel.

I've played around 75 of the courses on the list.

My take - for those who care:

Courses that are Too High

1. National Golf Club of Canada - top 10
6. Beacon Hall Golf Club – top 25
9. The Royal Montreal Golf Club - Blue – top 50
14. Rocky Crest Golf Club – top 50
22. Devil's Pulpit – top 100
27. Kananaskis Country Golf Course - Mount Kidd Course – top 100
32. Glencoe Golf and Country Club - Glen Forest – top 100

Courses that are Too Low

37. Greywolf Golf Course – top 25
44. Dakota Dunes Golf Links – top 20
52. St. Thomas Golf and Country Club – top 15
53. Scarboro Golf and Country Club – top 15
54. Rosedale Golf Club  – top 25
59. Calgary Golf and Country Club  – top 30
67. Essex Golf and Country  – top 25
68. Summit Golf and Country Club – top 30
69. Angus Glen Golf Club - South Course – top 30
76. Mount Bruno Country Club – top 25
77. Osprey Valley Golf Club - Hoot – top 35
80. Cataraqui Golf and Country Club – top 20
86. Lookout Point Country Club – top 25
87. Le Club Laval-Sur-Le-Lac - Green Course – top 35
88. Maple Downs Golf and Country Club – top 40
89. Beaconsfield Golf Club – top 40
92. Lake Joseph Club  – top 45

Courses that Should be on the List

St. Charles Golf & Country Club (Manitoba) – top 70
Waskesiu Golf Course (Saskatchewan) – top 60
Riverside Golf & Country Club (Saskatchewan) – top 35
Kawartha Golf & Country Club (Ontario) – top 40
Islesmere Golf & Country Club (Quebec) – top 50
Chateau Montebello (Quebec) – top 50
Pine Grove Golf Club (Quebec) – top 100

[Jeff_Mingay]

Ian,

You know how much I love Scarboro; and, I can't wait to see your work there. But, top-15? Really? This makes me even more anxious to see your work there. (In fact, I'm passing through Toronto Wednesday and will definitely try to stop by.)

Not surprisingly, I can't agree more with your over-rated selections. National, Beacon Hall, Royal Montreal in particular; and, I'd add Crowbush and Marine Drive. Essex, for example, should not be behind Marine Drive; especially following the comprehensive restorative-based work completed by Bruce Hepner over recent years, at Essex. These courses are on similarly flat properties, and there's no comparison. (I see this in your top-25 endorsement of Essex.)

Frankly, if we could ever get them restored properly, there's probably a definite top-7 in Canada: Stanley Thompson's top-5 -- Jasper, Banff, St. George's, Capilano and Highlands Links -- plus Colt's Toronto and Hamilton courses. After these courses (properly restored), the debate can begin...

[Ian Andrew]

I had it there when the four of us did our reviews - this has nothing to do with our work - it has everything to do with the course. I doubt you'll be bowled over by the work - it's pretty understated.

I just always liked the course - same with St. Thomas and Cataraqui.

[Philippe Binette]

Three comments:

1) The Blue Course at Royal Montreal with Rees changes (or destruction) is not even the best course in.... Royal Montreal Golf Club

2) Mount Bruno is the best course in Quebec. Period, it's just that nobody can see it

3) The best hole at Gallagher's Canyon is not even as good as the worst hole at Beaconsfield, 

It is what it is

[Dan Herrmann]

Guys - where would you put Thompson's Whirlpool in terms of public-access Canadian courses.  A round at Whirlpool was always the highlight of my golfing year growing up in Buffalo.

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