Can you Name that Course?? ROYAL COLWOOD

[Jeff_Mingay]

Thanks Bill.

It must be noted though that much of the historical information about Macan is available today thanks to research done by Michael Riste of Vancouver, who is very much involved with the British Columbia Golf Museum.

[Sean_Tully]

Any time frame on those photos?

I have seen an article written by Macan shortly after the course opened that had some rather interesting photos.

Tully

[Wayne_Kozun]

When I look at a map Victoria sure looks like it is in the Pacific Southwest since we are talking about Canada. 

[Jordan Caron]

This is great, David. I absolutely love seeing Macan get this attention, which he deserves.

As for Royal Colwood... take some trees down, change some mowing lines, redo the bunkers and, viola! We have one of Canada's great golf courses. Amazing considering it was Macan's first course, c. 1913.

Colwood is an excellent course, and a wonderful place. So is Victoria Golf Club, where I understand Macan hung-out most often while in Victoria.

Shame about the 7th at Colwood. It seems they built the forward teeing area over that beautiful foreground seen in the historic photo David's posted above. Not only is this foreground lost, but the view from the back tee is compromised as well.

Jeff,
 
I played out there Tuesday evening and since they've extended the back tees and added a shorter tee box, you can't even see the flagstick when it is om the front of the green.  The course is so much fun to play and really requires some shot making.  16-18 are great finishing holes and they could make both 16 & 17 20+ yeards longer to make those holes downright nasty.  Outside of Victoria GC, Colwood and Seattle are by far my two favorite settings for a golf course. 

[DMoriarty]

Jeff,

This is great, David. I absolutely love seeing Macan get this attention, which he deserves.

As for Royal Colwood... take some trees down, change some mowing lines, redo the bunkers and, viola! We have one of Canada's great golf courses. Amazing considering it was Macan's first course, c. 1913.

Jeff, Thanks for stopping in, and thanks for the great writeup.   To me one of the things that is very interesting about Macan is the early date of this course.  He apparently had some very interesting ideas and was doing some interesting work at a pretty early date.

I get the impression from the photos that most of his bunkers were steep and rugged, and still cut into the existing landscape. Do you by chance have any photos of his early work?

As for the 7th, I wonder if they not only added the front tee, but also elevated both tees.    It seems like a heck of a lot of foreground was taken out of the view.   Needless to say, I prefer the earlier look.
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Sean,

Not sure of the date of the photos.  Someone familiar with the course history could date them easily enough by the clubhouse.  I suspect that the clubhouse in the photos was built in 1922 and according to the website burned down in the late 20's, but here was a replacement clubhouse built later so I guess that could be the one. 

Do you recall where you saw the article?  I'd love to see those photos.   

Wayne,  I apologize for the geographocentric terms in my post.  If it makes you feel any better (and it probably won't) I consider the pacific northwest to be everything from oregon to Alaska. 
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Jeff, did they elevate the tees in the 7th? 

[Bill_McBride]

To my eye it looks more like they doubled or tripled the size of the 7th tee.  The front of the modern tee is closer to the green than the original tee which changes the look of the thing.  That old look, with the shot over the broken sandy waste, was very cool.

[Scott Stambaugh]

DMoriarty-

I agree, the water features have been formalized, probably a response at some point to erosion control.

The rock work around some of the tees (I recall #4 and the newer construction/extension of #7) was a bit out of place.  I could see the need for it on #7 to maximize tee space (I think Colwood does 60,000+ rounds a year) but it just didn't look like a good, natural fit.  Interestingly, I played Gorge Vale on the same trip (Macan design not far from downtown Victoria,) and they had some of the same formalized rock work on several of their tees as well. (?)  I think there's a retired stone mason lying on a beach somewhere on the Sunshine Coast...

The fairway contours (and greens for that matter) could stand some adjustments.  That seems to be a common denominator on all of the Macan courses I have played.  With most of the older courses in the PNW being predominantly poa, it is very easy to recapture what has been lost- it's just a matter of having an educated/motivated Superintendent and a willing membership who recognizes the value in it.  Here at Overlake, (Macan design in Seattle,) we have added about two acres of lost fairway and reshaped some portion of nearly every green edge to 'find' lost hole locations.  Good hole locations.

As far as Macan's popularity- I agree 100% with you.  Outside of the PNW, I believe Macan only did a few courses in California, one of which has just been through a major restoration crediting most of the design features to Mackenzie.  Outside of the GolfClubAtlas circle, mention the name Macan on the east Coast and I'm certain you would hear crickets...


Jeff-

You are absolutely correct, Michael Riste is the authority on Macan.  It is my understanding he has recently finished a book on Macan.  Can't wait to see it.


Jordan-

The finishing holes are great.  The Club Historian I played with told me that Macan felt that #9 through #13 were the best stretch of holes he ever designed.  To me, other than the forgettable 14th, the entire back nine is solid.

Scott



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[Jordan Caron]

Scott,

In 2001 Colwood hosted the BCGA Men's Amateur and a buddy and myself were joking that we didn't want to start on #10 as they had split tees the first two rounds.  In 2006 I also played the in BCPGA Championship out there and they made the back nine, the starting 9.  Starting on the back at 7:30 AM is a REAL challenge!  I set my par at 13 for holes 10-12!  But yes, the back nine is awesome with a weak par 5.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Royal Colwood is a golf course which deserves this kind of discussion.

This historic photo of the par-3 7th hole David's posted is stunning. By comparison with the modern image Scott's posted, we see what some restorative-based work could achieve at Colwood.

I do have some really neat photos of Macan's early work, including some historic images of his bunker work at Inglewood in Seattle (c. 1920s). But, I don't know how to post them?!

[DMoriarty]

Jeff, I'd be glad to post them tonight if you want to email them to me.   I believe you have my email. 

[DMoriarty]

Thanks to Jeff Mingay for some more photos of another Macan course; Inglewood (1919) in Kensington WA.

The 10th:



The 6th, a par 3, from sometime in the 20's:



The 6th from 2005:


Wow, amazing crumples and rolls in the first two photos.

The 6th hole looks longer in the first photo.  The hole is listed currently as at 183 yards.  According to the aerial photo on the website, there is a stream that runs across the hole about halfway to the green, the view of which must be  concealed by the hill.

The website also notes that Tillinghast made a series of change recommendations in 1935.   Could that explain where that cool bunker short of the green went? 

Terrific stuff Jeff.  Thanks.   

[DMoriarty]

Here are a few more old photos of Colwood.

The 9th green looking back at the fairway, from 1927.  Notice how wide the fairways have been mowed.


Another unidentified green, 1927.  One can get an idea of the undulation by looking at the mound in the left of the photo.


The fourth from 1920 . . .


The fourth from 1927 . . .


The current fourth from website . . .


An old photo of the 13th (same photo as above)


The current 13th green from the website . . .

[Jeff_Mingay]

Macan writes an interesting article in Pacific Golf and Motor previewing his Colwood course, prior to the 1922 Pacific Northwest amateur championship there, posted at Royal Colwood's web site:

http://www.royalcolwood.org/documents/ThePacificNorthwestatColwood.pdf

Best line from Macan's article: "Anyone acquainted with the course will be glad to hear that a new green has been constructed at the eighth; the old green was a serious blot on the course -- in my saner moments I wonder how I planned it. However that may be, the new green is as excellent as the old one was bad."

Macan had a personality as bold and entertaining as any of his contemporaries!

David,

I'm pretty sure the "unidentified green" you've posted above is the seventh. 

[Scott Stambaugh]

David-

Great photos of Inglewood.  The recent photo does not depict how much of a downhill shot it really is.  That is why you can't see the creek in the photo.  Also, the bunker short and right of the green was just put back in either in late 2004 or early 2005.  It was removed along with the one in the front and apparently only one was approved to construct.  Even at that, supposedly some of the members did not want to even see the one on the right built.  I read somewhere (I can't seem to remember where) that when Inglewood was built, money was tight so it was built without any bunkers.  They came back in after the course opened and put them in.  Imagine that being done today...

Jeff-

Do you think perhaps the 8th green was relocated because the old green was too close to the end of the practice range?  Kind of funny- on the wall in the Men's locker room at Colwood is a list of members who are banned from hitting driver on the practice tee because of their length and ability to hit it over the fence at the end of the range.  If one of the members on the list is caught hitting driver, their practice privileges are revoked for one year.  Pretty classic stuff!

Scott

[Jeff_Mingay]

Scott,

I don't know the history of the 8th -- and driving range -- at Colwood, but that's a pretty funny story about members who are banned from hitting driver on the practice tee!

[Cory Brown]

Here is a photo of the 2nd at Royal Colwood.  The golf course is very good,  but many holes have gotten a bit overwhelmed by the Douglas firs.  I had never seen trees like that before in my life, even in Washington. 
The second hole still feels like it is retaining a lot of the original character.  Not sure about the green though.

[DMoriarty]

David-

Great photos of Inglewood.  The recent photo does not depict how much of a downhill shot it really is.  That is why you can't see the creek in the photo.  Also, the bunker short and right of the green was just put back in either in late 2004 or early 2005.  It was removed along with the one in the front and apparently only one was approved to construct.  Even at that, supposedly some of the members did not want to even see the one on the right built.  I read somewhere (I can't seem to remember where) that when Inglewood was built, money was tight so it was built without any bunkers.  They came back in after the course opened and put them in.  Imagine that being done today...

Scott, those photos I posted of Inglewood were Jeff's but I agree that they are terrific.  The place looks like it was pretty interesting as well.   I think it was relatively common or even preferred for some of the older courses to be built without bunkers-- at least without fairway bunkers-- so that they could properly place them after seeing how the hole played.   It probably did not hurt to defer the cost until later, as well.   I am not sure whether Macan advocated this approach, but some big name designers did including MacKenzie (I think) and Macdonald.   Perhaps Jeff knows?

I cannot imagine a course being built like that now but perhaps we would have some more relevant bunkers if they adopted that strategy.  I think the best we can hope for now is that the designer stays involved for a couple of years to move things around and build or remove bunkers as needed. 

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Cory,

Thanks for the photo.  Does the hole have a pronounced right to left slope?  Is their more movement that shows in the photo?   

[Bill_McBride]

Here is a photo of the 2nd at Royal Colwood.  The golf course is very good,  but many holes have gotten a bit overwhelmed by the Douglas firs.  I had never seen trees like that before in my life, even in Washington. 
The second hole still feels like it is retaining a lot of the original character.  Not sure about the green though.

Cory, you ought to see what the local trees and the imported Giant Sequoias have done to Columbia-Edgewater.  Take a look at their website for a course tour:

http://www2.cybergolf.com/sites/images/509/Course-Photo-Gallery.wmv

[Raymond]

I'm a non-resident member of one of AVM's Portland courses, Columbia-Edgewater, and wish I was out there more frequently.  It's beautifully routed and has a fine set of greens with interesting contours.  Of course I have little idea how much Macan is still there, I know Bob Cupp did one green, #17, that is much different from all of the others with its potato chip edges.
[/quote]

Bill, I believe the re-design of #17 and #9 along with a few other minor changes to Columbia Edgewater was done by the Arthur Hills group, not Cupp. I could be wrong but that is what I remember.

[Bill_McBride]

I'm a non-resident member of one of AVM's Portland courses, Columbia-Edgewater, and wish I was out there more frequently.  It's beautifully routed and has a fine set of greens with interesting contours.  Of course I have little idea how much Macan is still there, I know Bob Cupp did one green, #17, that is much different from all of the others with its potato chip edges.

Bill, I believe the re-design of #17 and #9 along with a few other minor changes to Columbia Edgewater was done by the Arthur Hills group, not Cupp. I could be wrong but that is what I remember.
[/quote]

That's interesting, Raymond, everybody at CECC (including Bunny Mason) thinks Cupp did that work on #17.  Maybe Hills did #9 but no one there has ever mentioned Arthur Hills in connection with CECC.  With Cupp a local, it makes sense that he was involved.

Recent work, including several lengthed and a new #3 green farther back and to the right, has been designed by the local architect who did Bandon Crossings - Hixon?  I didn't play this summer so haven't seen the new #3 green yet.

[Raymond]

I'm a non-resident member of one of AVM's Portland courses, Columbia-Edgewater, and wish I was out there more frequently.  It's beautifully routed and has a fine set of greens with interesting contours.  Of course I have little idea how much Macan is still there, I know Bob Cupp did one green, #17, that is much different from all of the others with its potato chip edges.

Bill, I believe the re-design of #17 and #9 along with a few other minor changes to Columbia Edgewater was done by the Arthur Hills group, not Cupp. I could be wrong but that is what I remember.

That's interesting, Raymond, everybody at CECC (including Bunny Mason) thinks Cupp did that work on #17.  Maybe Hills did #9 but no one there has ever mentioned Arthur Hills in connection with CECC.  With Cupp a local, it makes sense that he was involved.

Recent work, including several lengthed and a new #3 green farther back and to the right, has been designed by the local architect who did Bandon Crossings - Hixon?  I didn't play this summer so haven't seen the new #3 green yet.
[/quote]

Bill, I was a member there during the re-design work and I'd bet a fifth of single malt that Arthur Hills was the designer. Doak was doing the work at PD at the time and I even brought his name up to the greens committee to see if they would give him a shot to take a look at the entire course. I love Bunny, he is the best swing guru I've ever had, but he has problems remembering today from yesterday. Let me know if you find out anything different.

Dan Hixson was the pro at CECC and left to pursue his dream as an architect. I'm so happy to see he is getting the positive reviews on Bandon Crossing. I'm interested to see the results of his work at CECC.







\
 Dan Hixson who is doing the work is the former pro at CECC.

[Bill_McBride]

I'm a non-resident member of one of AVM's Portland courses, Columbia-Edgewater, and wish I was out there more frequently.  It's beautifully routed and has a fine set of greens with interesting contours.  Of course I have little idea how much Macan is still there, I know Bob Cupp did one green, #17, that is much different from all of the others with its potato chip edges.

Bill, I believe the re-design of #17 and #9 along with a few other minor changes to Columbia Edgewater was done by the Arthur Hills group, not Cupp. I could be wrong but that is what I remember.

That's interesting, Raymond, everybody at CECC (including Bunny Mason) thinks Cupp did that work on #17.  Maybe Hills did #9 but no one there has ever mentioned Arthur Hills in connection with CECC.  With Cupp a local, it makes sense that he was involved.

Recent work, including several lengthed and a new #3 green farther back and to the right, has been designed by the local architect who did Bandon Crossings - Hixon?  I didn't play this summer so haven't seen the new #3 green yet.

Bill, I was a member there during the re-design work and I'd bet a fifth of single malt that Arthur Hills was the designer. Doak was doing the work at PD at the time and I even brought his name up to the greens committee to see if they would give him a shot to take a look at the entire course. I love Bunny, he is the best swing guru I've ever had, but he has problems remembering today from yesterday. Let me know if you find out anything different.

Dan Hixson was the pro at CECC and left to pursue his dream as an architect. I'm so happy to see he is getting the positive reviews on Bandon Crossing. I'm interested to see the results of his work at CECC.
[/quote]

I'm sure you are right, I've only been around there a couple of years and not very much at that, only five or six weeks in the summer.  I haven't heard Art Hills mentioned there, maybe the work was not well received initially.  You would probably remember better than me!  I'm not a big fan of the green at #17, that potato chip style is completely out of character with the rest of the greens.  I think #9 is a good green and fits right in, love that right to left slope feeding down toward the water in the back half of the green.

Are you still a member there?  I won't be back out until next summer.

[Cory Brown]

David,
The 2nd at Colwood has a really subtle right to left slope, but it is one of the flatter fairways on the site.  The fairway has a lot of natural small humps and hollows, but nothing extreme.  I just like the feeling of navigating through the bunkers off the tee, even though they don't really come into play for me on well struck shot.  The one on the right can be carried with a good drive and only a very long hitter can reach the second bunker on the right.

Bill,
I had the opportunity to play Columbia Edgewater last spring.  The golf course is great, however the Giant Sequoias have really squeezed down the lines of play.  I know that a lot of the members love them, and see them as their own trademark that makes their course special, but I think the course could be better if some of them were removed to open up more of the original lines of play.  Just my opinion of course

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,
I had the opportunity to play Columbia Edgewater last spring.  The golf course is great, however the Giant Sequoias have really squeezed down the lines of play.  I know that a lot of the members love them, and see them as their own trademark that makes their course special, but I think the course could be better if some of them were removed to open up more of the original lines of play.  Just my opinion of course

The only thing that keeps the course playable is that the greenkeeping staff does a great job of pruning the big trees so there is always a play under them back to the fairway.  I found it very difficult to try to curve shots around them, they seem to reach out and grab your ball.

A 12 man crew with 3 chainsaws and a dump truck could do great stuff at CECC given a month or two. 

[Scott Stambaugh]

Bill,
I had the opportunity to play Columbia Edgewater last spring.  The golf course is great, however the Giant Sequoias have really squeezed down the lines of play.  I know that a lot of the members love them, and see them as their own trademark that makes their course special, but I think the course could be better if some of them were removed to open up more of the original lines of play.  Just my opinion of course

The only thing that keeps the course playable is that the greenkeeping staff does a great job of pruning the big trees so there is always a play under them back to the fairway.  I found it very difficult to try to curve shots around them, they seem to reach out and grab your ball.

A 12 man crew with 3 chainsaws and a dump truck could do great stuff at CECC given a month or two. 

One hole down, seventeen to go...